Abortion

infant is human. fetus is not. her body her choice

 

Hey, Pizzaman:
I have a friend whose due date is this Friday, June 5th. If the baby does not come Friday do you think she should be able to legally go to a doctor and terminate the pregnancy?

I am personally anti-abortion and I am also pro-choice in that I do not think it is the governments role to tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies. Yet, at some point one has to acknowledge that to terminate a pregnancy hours before naturally giving birth is tantamount to killing a baby.

The real question is where is that line. Pizza seems to think it is once you give birth, a position I do not think is advocated by educated people anywhere. Others think it wrong to even wear a condom, a position not held by most of the world as a matter of fact.

Personally, I think the rules in place now, allowing abortions in the first trimester is pretty fair compromise - but I certainly would not prevent a woman from having an abortion to save her own life at any time.

My opinions are not based on any religious belief, but based on common sense and practical realities. The idea that some people, like Palin, would never allow an abortion, even for an 8 year-old girl who was raped by her father seems a bit extreme - - - just about as extreme as pizza here who thinks a woman should be able to terminate her pregnancy on her due date so long as the baby has not taken a breath yet. Both of you are crazy.

 

You can argue about when life begins, but you are a fool for continuing to say a human fetus is not human.

Words have meanings, and a baby resulting from human sperm and human egg in all stages of development is human. Arguing otherwise just makes you a fool.

 

we are considering abortion in this topic
you ask the real question is where is that line. i say the first thing to consider is what line are we looking for?
are we looking for the line where the life begins? then life begins at conception. both egg and sperm are alive and the first cell is also alive.
or the question is when human life begins. i think this is the real question .
then we must ask what a human being is. if we want to consider this question then we must look at what we call human being. a fetus is not a full human being is it now? it does not breathe. it lives within a mothers body. it shares blood with her. her body is not fully like the human body.
so then again where do we draw the line.at 50% human characteristic 75% or what number do we choose. is just having human dna enough.the most logical would be at 100% and that is after the first breath of air. if you chose any other number then i can ask why, and we have to rely on someones judgment. then who is that person. the only absolute numbers that require no judgment is either 0 or 100. it has to be either at conception or at birth. i chose at birth.because at that point we have a 100% complete human.and you choose 0 i respect that. but then you must oippose abortion at any stage as murder.

 

blah blah blah

Where is the line where you would allow abortions. Am I correct that you would allow a woman to abort a pregnancy hours before her due date?

 

Putting all arguments, definitions and science aside, Pizzaman would you really be able to turn to your partner and ask her to terminate something you've both made? Can you honestly tell me, hand on heart, that you could do that without feeling anything, at all? You can say it's not human, but think about it, it's half you and half your partner; something which given a little while longer would be a baby and would grow into a child, adolescent and adult. Would you be able to see your partner go through such a degrading, abhorrent and dangerous medical procedure - just because you were careless?

I wouldn't, and that's why despite my lack of theist beliefs, I would never want to ask that of my partner, nor would I be able to live with myself.

 

Are you an idiot? Seriously? Your one of those terrorist freaks, who's mind cannot be changed. No matter WHAT anyone says to you. In the end, your STILL going to THINK you are right and based off most replies here you're not.

So go ahead and believe what you want. Your probably some loser out there anyways, who never got any proper education and is living in a dump.

 

allow? i do not think it is anyone's business but hers. she has the right to do with her body as she chooses. as long as she is mentally sane

i do not think you, me or anyone should put any additional burden on any mother when making this decision. it is her choice and she will seek the counsel that she needs.
would you allow your wife to have breast implants. this useless and dangerous procedure just for cosmetic purposes?
would you allow a transsexual to go ahead with a sex change operation that is dangerous
would you allow any person to go ahead with any elective surgery.

 

You're not asking a rational person that question. In which case, its not a fair question to ask of him. You'll just get the same ignorant response which will consist of a unintelligible sentence fragment devoid of proper capitalization, punctuation or prose.

Basically gibberish.

 

That's "it's not a fair question."

That's, "an unintelligible sentence fragment devoid..."

Agreed, all, Pizza's position is strident.

While I ultimately do think it's a pretty tough call for us to declare what a woman must do with her body - some here, for instance, have said in essence that even in the case of rape, a woman should be forced to carry the child to term; some here, such as Mia, have declared the murder of abortionists apparently justifiable ("someone finally had enough of Dr. Death...") - to try to torture the notion of a fetus from the fact that it is, in fact, a human, is ridiculous.

Between what I would call an amorphous, unconscious piece of pre-tissue - the blastocyte - and the child, hours from birth, is a difficult though necessary dividing line, and I don't see any easy answers.

 

The arguement is not about that right now NP, it is about how someone could think a fetus is not a human until it breathes air. It's certainly not an elephant.

I'm not against abortion, but I am against the slaughtering of basic scientific fact. Biology is my main field of knowledge, and no amount of belief is going to make that human an elephant. It's not an organ, its not a nose, its does not have the same DNA as the mother, it is as helpless as a newborn, and it is most certainly alive, and thus it is most certainly a human being.

I am not arguing the morals, I am not arguing the rights, I am simply trying to get through that it is a living human, a living sack of flesh that, at no matter what point of development, is most certainly:
A. Alive - which pizza finally accepts
B. Human - which pizza vehemently denies unless "it takes a breath"
C. Respires - respiring does not require a breath (BRUm is correct).

It certainly is not a mouse, a louse, a giraffe, a kangaroo, or a weasel inside someone's womb. It's a living, respiring, human - even at one god damn day. Because when cells are maintaining homeostasis, they are alive, which means the organism is alive, and because of the genetic code, it is a human. Not a lemon. If I ripped it out and ground it up, it would not make lemonade, now would it? Nor would it be a watermelon. Human.

But, it's like talking to a wall.

 

I'm with you, Jackuul...my "to try to torture the notion of a fetus from the fact that it is, in fact, a human, is ridiculous...." is along the same line.

 

It is... Anyway, until you experience your child's birth, it is almost impossible to appreciate the reality and miracle that is life. Eventually people figure it out on their own and change their mind.

 

Plenty of people who are pro-choice have had children. In fact many people make the choice to have an abortion AFTER having had children.

 

One they end up regretting... I've heard and seen it all too often. Like I said, over time, people figure these things out on their own. I've seen plenty of pro-deather's become pro-life. I've yet to see a pro-lifer become pro-death.

 

I fell in to that category once I grew up. I think Pizzaman et al will too, when they grow up - no idea when that will be though.

 

Same here. Until you've been on both sides of the isle, or worn both pairs of shoes, its really difficult to form a truly unbiased opinion on the subject.

Time is all it takes.

 

In Mia's case, the operation was an improvement, now if they could only fix his way of thinking too.

 

i have shown two or three major biological differences between fetus and human body. these are universal which means these difference exist between all humans and all fetuses.
now you guys say that two difference is not sufficient to proclaim they are not the same.
can you provide one difference between fetus and other human body part, that i can not show at least one body part that is no different to a fetus in that regard?
if your belief is based on facts that are proven to be false then it is time to reevaluate your believes.
also you call my position extreme all along having the position that you have the right over half of human population's control of their body. the fact that fetus is part of mothers body is argued all over the place. i have changed the phrasing of this belief to show its accuracy.

 

The fetus can feel pain independent from his/her mother, starting from about the 28th week of development.