Abortion

1. A fetus, and no other body part, is capable of life outside and independent of the mother.

2. A fetus, and no other body part, is capable of surviving an accident and live on when the mother dies.

3. A fetus, and no other body part, has its own independent nervous system.

4. A fetus, and no other body part, has its own skeletal system.

5. A fetus, and no other body part, is capable of being a different blood type than the mother.

6. A fetus, and no other body part, has different DNA than the mother.

7. A fetus, and no other body part must separate from the mother to survive more than one year.

A fetus, and no other body part, is capable of thought.

I could go on and on. The is just getting ridiculous. You have established such a weak rationale in your own mind for your pro-choice position that you are now clinging desperately to obvious falsehoods is some pathetic attempt to protect yourself from critical thought.

Is your position so weak that it depends on your tortured definitions to survive even your own scrutiny? Just get off this "a fetus is not a human" or a "fetus is like a nose" - they are absurd and do a disservice to everything you are trying to accomplish by posting in this thread.

 

Pizzaman. When you FINALLY GROW up and have kids... you will feel like a total idiot for saying what you did, and realize you were wrong. but ONLY when you have your own kids and family. The day you hold your own kid in your own hands, then watch and see how shitty you feel for even SAYING something like this.... and I knew, because I've talked to people like you. Then when they have a kid, they change and regret saying stuff like what you have said so far.

 

Apparently pizzaman is just trying to justify the killing of an innocent human being by warping his mind into believing it is not a human. I'm sorry to say, there is no species on this planet known as fetus. There are things known as the human fetus, the cow fetus, the horse fetus, the pig fetus, etc. etc. If you going to allow someone to abort a pregnancy at least call it what it really is, the killing of another human being.

 

Both well put. The point is, Pizza has a lot of growing up to do. Time will tell.

 

How come you see nothing wrong with torturing and killing of innocent people (if you forget, everyone is innocent until proved otherwise) but you are concerned about fetus?

Are you really concerned about fetus or controlling women?

 

Where do you come up with this nonsense? If I see someone commit a crime, I do not need to wait for some court to confirm what I already saw with my own eyes?

Do you think when a woman is raped, and her attacker is caught in the act, that he "is innocent until proven guilty"?

Likewise, being found not-guilty of a crime is certainly no proof of innocence either.

 

not if it does not breathe. and if it does then it becomes human. that is my exact point.

transplant. a lot of them is done after death

each body part has different features and elements that is consistent with its function. all parts of body have some nervous systems and a lot of them have bones. the shape and function of these is different .even a lot of body part do things autonomously like heart. also some parts of body have different and exclusive tissue. it does not preclude any from being organs of the mother's body.

they share blood at a level. i posted an article about this.

i have to do a little study of this. i know that the there is differences in the dna of different organs. that is how they developed into different type of tissue. but i have to read more about this to argue authoritatively. i will come back to this

it must not separate to survive. it separates when its life cycle is finished. baby teeth separates from the body at certain age. so does fetus. but teeth do not breathe. fetus starts breathing. that is when it changes and becomes human. so while it is body part it is no different than baby teeth.

i would like proof of this

the basis of your argument is challengable as i have done here. feel free to support any other argument that you have.

i am presenting evidence that baby is different from human. and is an organ of the mothers body. this is an arguable idea. your side have presented very little argument against it that i did not shown wrong. it is that you do not want to accept the argument because it goes against your beliefs. very similar to flat earth theory.

 

how about species called nose?!

 

another argument
by my definition fetus becomes a baby[human] after birth and taking its first air
so can a fetus at any age survive without mother?
if it is human it should? can an 8 month 3 week and 6 day old fetus survive without its mother? i say no it can not. and therefore it is not human, even at that point.

 

Pizza, you are honestly making a total ass of yourself. You don't have a fucking clue what you are saying. You can say up is down, and red is black all you want, but you are just lying to yourself and making obnoxiously false statements.

This is absurd. Babies live all the time "without its mother" much earlier than "8 month 3 week and 6 day old fetus". Have you never heard of a premature baby? My own mother was not that old when she started to survive without her mother.

The earliest gestational age at which the infant has at least a 50% chance of survival is referred to as the limit of viability. As NICU care has improved over the last 40 years, viability has reduced to approximately 24 weeks, although rare survivors have been documented as early as 21 weeks. (P.S. 24 WEEKS IS 6 MONTHS!) source
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12.5% of babies are born premature in the USA, that is a total of half a million babies each year source
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About 70% of babies born alive between 22 and 26 weeks gestation in Sweden now survive past the age of one, largely thanks to medical intervention. source from TODAY'S NEWS​

You are so ass backwards on this and refuse to acknowledge basic factual science. I am going to put you on ignore because you are engaging in the worst type of dishonest debate, it is shameful.

 

we are not talking about premature baby. we are talking about fetus. let me explain
lets say the mother is pregnant and at 8 months three weeks and 6 days dies. can the fetus stay alive in the body. lets say she is trapped in a mine and the fetus is not removed from the body. will it survive? no it will not. because it remains a fetus. it remains as part of mothers body. it remains a fetus and dies. now if the fetus is removed from the mother and takes air in its lungs. then it becomes human and survives. so it is not independent as fetus. it is not human as fetus. it does nothing as fetus. mothers body does everything. and also it all changes when air enters his lungs. it becomes human. he does for himself if its a boy. the babies that you are talking about are no longer fetus. they are born and breathing. they are human.they are no longer fetus.
please stay cool. we are talking about an issue that is very sensitive. i am not trying to get anyone aggravated. and i am sorry if i do. but what i say is very logical and coherent. read carefully. allow for your beliefs to be wrong. and try to see what i say. it is not easy to argue against things that are so widely accepted but widely accepted does not mean it is true.

 

actually sadly.. he IS innocent until proven guilty. I know, it's horrible the way the system is... but that's the way it is... But usually the COURT will say he's innocent... that is until you get to tell your side of the story as a witness.

 

So if we lock you in a mine with no air and you die? are you not human then too?

A fetus WOULD die if the mother dies, because it GETS air from the mother. If it could get out itself, then it COULD live by itself.

No offense you have such lame excuses.

You should go open your abortion is the best forum. Watch how you get hacked and owned. I wish you'd post a video of your self and say it... oh wait you won't, because you'd get your ass kicked so fast you'd wish your OWN mom aborted you.

I wish she did!

 

All I can say is the world is too crowded. I'm not for or against abortion but I do feel that folks shouldn't go out and have kids just cause they want kids and kids and kids. Its not right for the rest of us. Folks like that should at least be spayed if they are not gonna allow the rest of the world to keep tabs on un-necessary population growth. Just my two cents.

 

you are very unstable individual. you have free health care in canada. seek help

 

Guilty of a criminal statute is only one type of guilty.

As far as courts go, they do not declare people innocent, they may find a person not guilty of a criminal statute. Finding someone "not guilty" does not mean they did not do the act they are accused of and certainly does not mean they are necessarily innocent.

 

That may be so in your country Israel but in western countries including USA there is a principal that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

 

Who said anything about me being ok with torturing someone? Just because I'm ok with certain "extreme" interrogatin methods being used on people not subject to US Law (which, by the way, innocent until proven guilty is a US statute, not an international law accepted by all countries).

These interrogation methods are a much better alternative than what would happen to them if we turned them over to the Iraqi or Afghani governments.

And a fetus is the most innocent and pure of all humans. It has done nothing wrong. It has not had the chance to be corrupted yet.

 

Torture is torture, doesn't matter what you call it. Are you OK with other countries using water boarding on American citizens or soldiers since it is not torture?

This is an stupid mentality that every thing comes from U.S.A., if you just read the post above your post, you will notice that while in USA the presumption of innocence is not directly mentioned, other countries directly mention it in their Constitution.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11, states: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which they have had all the guarantees necessary for their defence.

 

He's Canadian.