Abortion

because when we are deciding what everyone is allowed to do your opinions and terminology are frankly worthless. I know how inconvinient that must be for you considering all you have is you scientifically illiterate opinion, but that's tough. A decision, scientific decision void of all religious or political opinions, must ultimately be made as to the time limit put on human abortions.

If you disagree with sciences conclusions then I can only suggest that you make your own decisions and leave everyone else to make theirs.

Do you consider a nondescript collection of 16 cells to be a baby? I'm just trying to figure out exactly how little you understand the issue at hand.

Of course the weakness of your argument is evident by your need to use an argument from emotion by trying to convince everyone that it's a "wikkle babywaby" from conception, luckily though most on this forum are more scientifically litterate than you.

 

Actually the biggest problem these days is that children these days have lost most of their morals and are having kids out of wedlock and instead of learning how special sex and family is they are only learning about the lustful, selfish part of sex. Dont you agree stox, or do you have an opinion on that?

50 years back did we have this problem? these days there is no discipline, the family unit is gone, u spank your kid and they call the police on you? This is what is called the children running the household lol

We need to get back the traditional family of husband and wife, not just husband raising the kids alone or the wife raising kids alone. If we do this we wont even need to worry about abortion is it will be such a little problem, people will start forgetting about it.

Spare the rod, and dont be there for ur kids and they will be out on the streets seeking attention in many other ways.

 

Ah... our sarcastic friend has returned. Always nice to be called scientifically illiterate. Thanks so much.

Of course the weakness of your argument is evident by your need to frame everything in scientific terms by trying to convince everyone that it's stupid to care for the unborn, luckily though most on this forum are more caring than you.

I would not call 16 cells a baby, but there are those that would. You choose to take away their voice by trying to frame the question in scientific terms only.

For me, personally, it would have to look like a baby before I would call it a baby. You have no respect for the fetus as a baby, that's all. Others do. You are just here to ridicule those that disagree with you.

 

It's a scientific issue jazz. The issue is "at what stage of conception is it unnaceptable to abort".

Now you have just said you wouldn't consider a collection of 16 cells to be "a baby". So does that mean you don't oppose abortions at this stage? And if so, is your argument not the same as mine in that the issue is not yes or no but when?

Looking at a fetus appearance and determining how much it looks like us is such a superficial way of determining the stage at which abortions are acceptable. For one it doesn't start looking like a human untill quite late on which would probably result in you being for abortions up untill a later stage than I would and 2 there are many embryos which make it to that stage and are far less viable than many at the zygote stage.

We need a method which is far less simplistic.

 

I don't consider it a scientific issue at all. I have a daughter. My wife and I had the "what if" discussion. If my daughter were to "accidentally" get pregnant, I would support her if she chose to have an abortion UP TO A POINT.

I used to be against all abortions including the morning after pill. That is not a reasonable position, in my opinion. You like to frame everything in scientific terms, but I see it from a more "baby" vs, "not yet" approach. Could be we are in agreement. There is a first for everything.

 

I'll change my stance on Abortion if we can tax it.

 

This is why he comes with great junk everytime! ...

 

Totally agree with most of this here. Kids these days are absolute BRATS.

And we do need to get back to a more traditional family. You should see the looks I get, from men and women (but mostly women), when I tell them my goal is to stay home with my kids. And I'm not having kids until I can do that. They look at me like I lost my brain. Why would I want to waste all my talents on staying home with the kids? Why have kids if you can't be around to raise them I usually ask in return. But, I'm kind of jaded because I was raised by a single mom who couldn't be at every game, help me with my homework, or read to me before bedtime.

See where feminism has gotten us?

 

That's why he's on ignore.

 

I don't engage Firegirl anymore, from learned practice, but I would like to respond. This isn't really to her, as much as to anyone sharing the notion that "feminism" is some kind of blight on our society that must be "cured."

Hopefully, to a place where you can choose what you'd like to do in this respect, without it being a matter of course. This choice was hard won. You say you will not have kids until you are able to stay home. Great - wonderful goal, and I'd be the first in line to tell someone to shut the hell up should you, or anyone, wish to do that, and they would dare to tell you you could or should not.

But presuming you've worked in the workplace, and presuming you've received a decent education - you wouldn't have had those opportunities to get where you are, were it not for the struggle of many women before you. It wasn't more than a few decades ago when it would have been anathema for your gender to choose anything, but one thing. Yet you would now say to hell with what brought you that choice, even while asking to enjoy the fruits of that struggle. I don't get it.

My best hope for our species is that all people will simply be free to exploit themselves to the best of their abilities, living as they choose. I guess that's it.

 

Fire that is very admirable of you and I agree with you completely. I remember once having a conversation witha bank teller lady that liked me and we got to talking about motherhood. She then asked what my did for work, I replied " Shes a stay at home home" and she replied " is that all she does" to which I got ticked off and answered " yes its one of the toughest jobs on earth and that she wanted to do something much less meaningful but decided that being a banker wasnt for her" loooooooooooooooooooooool

Its incredible how our society has changed, stay at home moms should be looked up to and even paid massively for what they do. They sure have my respect.

Northpoint good to have you back

The issue here isnt about the struggle of feminism . Im glad women have more rights and im all for it, but like anything if feminism is taken to teh extreme it can really screw our culture up. Ill repeat this again, because of the amazing bond a woman and her child have at birth , there is no one more qualified to being there for her baby then a mother. Im not saying women should be slaves , im speaking about pure common sense, and we can see from the breakdown of our screwed up society what happens when the family structure is destroyed. We have more people going to shrinks to find someone that will listen to their problems, more people trying to replace the love that they should have recieved from both parents, more women looking to hop into bed with teh first guy thats says " I LOVE YOU". Feminism is ok as long as it stands for justice, buit when its taken to the extreme it can hurt both men and women.

 

Thanks, Ping.

First of all, let me say I totally agree with much of the sentiments here - I think we have raised a nation of indulgent, spoiled ninnies, by and large, and am daily astounded, and saddened, by how little parents seem to be involved in the raising of their kids - supplanting indulgence (or its opposite, violence and hatefulness) for parenting. I agree with Firegirl, and yourself, that this kind of lousy parenting is at the heart of much of what has gone wrong with today's society. Kids mostly just need their parents to be parents - just there, active, loving, teaching.

At the same time, I guess because I lived through a thing where my pa bailed when I was about 1 1/2 years old, and my mom did have to work, I view the struggle my mom's generation went through in a different light than what I hear expressed by Firegirl, for instance. I saw her work for years for a guy who depended on her heart and soul, but kept her in a lowly position because it would have been unheard of for a woman to be anything other than a shapely form at work, and a nice smile. It was hell to struggle to rectify this, just as it was hell to say it is beyond evil itself to declare one color of skin fit for drinking at a given fountain, and another, unfit.

I guess at the heart of it fort me is this: Let us remember the fight of those who went before us, and honor them, by working to live as we would choose.

 

Wow North. All I can say is that your mom should be looked up to as a true hero. So many other women would have folded the tent in if they were in her position. If only we had more women in this day and age like her.
That is amazing

 

Oh, while I'm grateful to my mom, Ping, I hope I didn't indulge too much in a personal thing. In fact, I think all mothers are heros - as I know you do, as well. I watched my wife go through delivery and birth, while I sat behind her on the bed to help as I could. What a woman's biology creates and sustains, what she undergoes just to bring us into the world, well - I really do think moms have courage most have no idea about.

 

While I agree that a lot of the youth today have lost their way, I disagree that pre-marital intercourse can be generalised as something outright wrong or immoral. What about those who have only ever been with one person and are in a strong relationship with intentions to marry later? I for one can say my partner and I are an example of this. I like your traditional thinking of the family unit, I strongly support it, despite no faith in any particular religion.

I concur with your views on Feminism too.

 

Sex is BAD!
-Religion.
Here's a condom, a pill, and a few other real ways. Remember STDs are spread, and for the love of humanity... rubber up!
-Sanity

 

Brum you are talking about a 1 in a million thing here. When I make my statements about this im talking about more in general. Most people that experience pre marital sex dont end up with the same person, and the temptation to just "get the milk instead of buying the whole cow is too great for most people to resist" . You have to look at the whole population here instead of that rare incident that turned out well. By the way, i am happy that you found your soulmate. Its good to see a happy ending. We sure do need more of them these days

 

So what is wrong with pre-marital sex or sex with many partners? Grow up, sex is good. It is not the fault of sex that in this day and age some people are still too stupid to use condom and birth control pills.

 

Dude , I think it goes way beyond just birth control. While you may be right that sex is a good feeling but can it even compare to love? The problem with our society today is that we feel that sex is the " be all that ends all" . Look at hollywood, look at how men and women treat each other. I see this then i turn around and see how my older friends from the old generation treat and respect the opposite gender (both women and men) and there is a world of difference there. We are focused almost exclusively on the physical aspects of sex and have placed it on a pedestal.

I am a christian and while i believe in saving myself for marriage I never push this on others and I have in fact gone against the church on sucjects pertaining to things like condom eductation in Africa and to prevent pre marital pregnancies so im not against it if they are going to do the deed as you said.

As far as growing up im 42 and I hope i never grow up that much, as far as maturity having sex doesnt make you an adult men or woman, its being their for family and your responsibilities and learning to love more that does.

 

Does having sex somehow prevent someone from finding love as well?

It is clear they are two different things, but why do you make finding love contingent on not having sex?