Outsourcing to India, when will western customers wake up?

If you're a webmaster with contact forms on your sites, I'm sure you know about spam from SEO companies from India?

What do you think about it? Do you still think it's wonderful to pay lower prices for your SEO? Do you think a little bit ahead and can associate our western countries economical difficulties with the outsourcing and delocalization trend that have been going on for decades now?
Don't you see a link between India and China economic growth and our own economy horrible state?

I've replied to clearpath technology's spam, they really couldn't care less about that and their prices are high too.. And some proud western customer accepted their testimonial to be published on their site..
http://blog-money-wiki.com/blog/201...spam-and-scam-from-clearpathtechnologycom.php

I don't know if there are still some western people who don't care about that.. But aren't they the same to critisize western governments for higher taxes and lower public services and unemployment?

Yes everyone has to eat, but if you had to chose between feeding your kid or an indian family, what would you chose? So why not at your country level?

 

I have met quite a few small to medium sized businesses that have used outsourcing to cut costs, for example I've had spam emails offering outsourcing work roles to India, with prices like $300 for amonth, which is not a lot here in £. Compared to around £700 that is the basic full time minimum wage for a month over here.
So you can see why these businesses would do this to save quite a bit of money, what they don't realise is they are putting their company in danger by using these people.

 

Yes, they are putting their own company in danger, but also their country as a whole, because in UK they have a generous welfare system, not reserved to its national, with high unemployment and many other problems..

I understand corporations and governments doing this, because corporations are sociopaths and governments stopped working for their people interest long time ago. But small western customers should have better common sense..

 

Everyone's out to make a money. Why pay someone local who has their head so far up their own ass that they can't breathe for twice the price of someone from a third world country when you can get the same results? The 40s are over; Germany lost; get over it.

 

Don't get personal it's business. Every service industry caters to different types of customers. The SEO industry is no different. But just like in any industry, the savvy customers understand that you usually pay what you get for your money, so if they expect results they will pay accordingly.

 

I couldn't Agree more.

but the others raise a good point too.

 

Yes, you know I agree with them too.. My main point I guess is about people buying outsourcing, buying imports from asia when the more expensive but nationally produced alternative is possible AND THEN complaining and whining..
For many things the alternative doesn't exist anymore, the know how has been lost. Could be recovered but with years of delay! And for it to happen would need strong political will, certainly not coming from the same politicans who allowed the situation to happen. I don't think it is a change of paradigm, in politics nothing is impossible, but there need to be a will, in any direction for it to happen.

That's all really.. Personally I'm not complaining or whining, I understand a little bit how it's happening, it's not by magic that western economies went down while india & china and others have large economic growth, and it's not because western societies have generous welfare systems. There could be welfare system and economic growth, but not if it is more profitable for companies to delocalize (putting home workers out of work) and then import back their goods, same with outsourcing. If those things were so taxed that it could stay more profitable to produce nationally, then companies would do just that.

So it's easy to understand, but it seems the choice is made, that's ok, simply people should not whine about it, it's their vote which allowed this to happen and continue for decades, that's all.

Me personally I'm not bothered about it, I've moved out from my country and now all my money is going to another country's taxes and economic growth. I am certainly part of this trend, buy from the internet products and services without looking at the origin much at all. And that's ok for me, individually everything is fine, I haven't felt any financial crisis at all yet!

I am just wondering about the people who stay in their western country and don't benefit from delocalization except for buying stuff with welfare money or the reduced money they earn if they still have a job.. Why those people still continue to vote for the same politicians, they don't live in dictatorship, so they are the one who put their country in this situation, corporations can't do anything if the governements don't allow the country to be tied to financial markets for their currency for instance as it is the case in the euro zone. Those governments have been elected again and again by the people who are now whining about unemployment and many problems.
Maybe someday they'll realize the problem but I won't congratulate them because they need to have the nose full of s*it to realize something smells bad.

 

I don't understand one point. Why do you target India?
If you think outsourcing is depleting your economy, then Western countries shouldn't outsource.
What do you think is the most possible reason for those countries to outsource?
The same work is done by both people, in the west and as well as the east. But in east it would be done at the cheaper rates.
If western people could reduce their prices then they could easily bag the deal.
People outsource only if they don't find a good local guy who could meet their needs.
Yes western economy is depleting, that's not just because of outsourcing there are many reasons which I don't want to comment about, as it be total out of topic.

 

Well I think DP is the best example there are only few people arround who learned that paying fair prices are worth the work and effort. But still most of the people arround are only trying to find the cheapest offer and the strange thing is even though only crap is delivered they won'T change for the next job they have to fill.

I started caring about people I am giving jobs to a while ago but I don't have that many jobs to provide anyway. I think this is a kind of culture that developed among people who didn't fully understand the internet an what makes it work the way it is.

I think there are plenty of good reasons to outsource and I don't have any problem with it. Everybody has to decide but sometimes I am wondering if the savings can cover the additional costs of correcting errors or are worth loosing customers due to bad support. This is general and you will find examples in basicly every industry.

To your last point in your latest reply. I think there are various reasons one can be they don't have enough expirience to make a living elsewhere. Over here we have TV shows showing people working abroad and most of the time you just can't stop wtf'ing as it seems they never left their town. Depending on the edication this effect might decrease but also the chances increase to get a good job (atleast for Germany this is still valid). For myself there is no need to worry as there are enoug possibilities to choose from. The main point in the recent crisis is it takes pretty long but most people don't understand what is happeing - like this euro-bond stuff or the time buying for Greecs when it was cheaper to cut their deps right at the start and support them aftwerwards.

Also you need to have the chance to vote, next election in Germany is in 2013 if I remember right so there is plenty of time to go before voters can express their anger and if they do the ones elected are still politicans (which is a great part of our recent problem in my eyes).

So far ... don't let this become to personal or targeted on any countrie as there are plenty of others with equal problems

 

Well, 99.9% of contact form spam about SEO service does come from India, that's how they get their western customers, that's it really.
I have nothing against indian spammers, they are employee in seo farms, same for software, etc. It's not my point.

Look at what I say I'm talking about those who are the victims of that, they are the unemployed citizen of western countries. But in those countries people get to vote for their politicians. Those politicians have allowed for decades delocalizations and outsourcing to happen, by not putting sufficient taxation on importations and checks on outsourcing.. If they did, then those western countries wouldn't have the same problems they have now, at the same time india/china and other would not have such high economic growth. One person's loss is another's gain. The problem I see is that the person losing is responsible for this loss (by voting for the same political trend) AND at the same time complaining about it..

I'm just saying people should make a choice, if they want the situation to worsen then they just have to keep doing what they've been doing, if they want to change then they also need to change their vote too..

I'm sorry but someone doing something dangerous (suicidal) and then getting seriously hurt or even dying doesn't move me a bit, I cannot feel empathy for them, it looks to me they were looking for that outcome and found it, so be it.

 

Fantastic points and issues being raised, this has turned into a very interesting thread
Keep at it!

more from my thoughts;

Of course it is fantastic for businesses to cut costs and there for be able to contribute more to the economy by growing and expanding but I feel that outsourcing should not be the priority to do this, there are many more options for doing so.
every business needs people to perform certain roles, it is a matter of finding the right people, by outsourcing there are 2 main worries in my mind;
1. Will the job role be performed as you need it to be (e.g. will this person you have outsourced have the ability to work as well as someone you find yourself)
2. What happens if something goes wrong with them, where do you stand? If the company goes under or cuts corners.

It is also good to point out what the guy above said about targeting India, it is not just India, lots and lots of countries countries use outsourcing as a way to bring in revenue to the country from others.
although I'm sure if the Uk tried outsourcing to India, we would get laughed at.

 

It's not a global economy simply because it's not a free economy . China has a state ran economy , if you're not blowing the communist party you're not gonna get any , India has some of the most powerful protectionist laws in place and the list can go on and on . Even the currency market isn't free when you have China holding their currency at 50% of it's real value just to give it's economy a competitive edge .

 

India dependence on exports (services and goods) is lower than many developed countries and is below world average.

India's economy is driven more by consumption and investment.

 

I totally understand you point but it's not that easy. The szenario you describe ist what France did for ages and see where it brought them. It's hard to find companies there in most industries that can compete on the global market. This is because they were saved from developing and adapting to the changes happening in the world. In contrast you can use Germany as an example where most have understood how to fight this problems. The only way to secure to employment and to stay competitive is to offer services and products that can't be outsourced easily because they will need high engineering skills or some kind of special knowledge.

Short example:

A company arround my hometown basicly shut down a complete site and transferred the production to some asian country because workforce is cheaper over there. But they kept the ground as there was nobody to sell to (their luck) and they also kept some of their workers to maintain the site. By now the site is manufacturing basicly all special machinery this companie needs for their other plants and they started hiring people they fired before because they had certain knowledge about the machines that was needed.

So you can see there is a way to live with the trend of outsourcing (which is not a big topic in most industries over here right now). As far as I know about there is a huge trend for in-sourcing services and production capacities again after the crisis of the last few years to have controll of the products you need at the sites you need the products at.

The key factor is innovation and edication for the next decade atleast to recreate jobs that were lost before. Of course you can't hire a regular worker to design new products but he can run a machine where prototypes are produced on.

And as I said before leaving the countries to take the advantage is also an option but not for most of the people, you need to be skilledl and qualified to be successfull somewhere else and if you are there is a pretty high chance you will have good options to stay. Maybe not in the area you are living in right now but in the country.


Off-Topic:

I agree this developed into a pretty cool discussion

 

I outsource very little programming to India and SEO mostly to the Philippines, Thailand and other areas of Asia.

I have a couple of customers who first decided to outsource their web development because of the cheap cost, I think they paid around £200 per website, and basically the websites did more damage than good, the Joomla sites got hacked and the sites simply fell apart with no return on investment, a very bad business move on there part. Its really those type of people who are suffering and need to be educated.

Outsourcing can be great, but should be left to the professionals.

Regarding the economy and outsourcing, I know of a ecommerce shop in the UK which outsources its SEO overseas, and due to its success its able to employ over 100 staff in the UK for other roles. Its questionable if this shop would still be successful without outsourcing.

 

OP is asking this question not sitting in his own country, but from Thailand. Isnt this a contradict?

 

Lol indeed, this is how things are done nowdays /

 

It's not as he was asking why not more people are doing it the same way and leaving to stay abroad where less money is needed for dolce vita (hope I remembered right ^^)

 

As I said, I'm not one living in my own country and whining about problems there, I am simply wondering about the ones who do stay in their country and whine, why don't they use their votes? That's all I'm saying..

Personally I don't even vote in my own country anymore, I couldn't care less what happen to them, they seem to like shit, now they can eat it.. But saying that it tastes bad and asking for more is to me the sign of a masochist people

We can't blame people from North Korea that they have closed their borders and are living in extreme poverty, because they live under a dictatorship, as is the case in many countries. But the people from Europe are supposed to live in democracy and so are the ones to blame for the problem they get because they vote for the people who take the decisions. I guess collective intelligence is poor and so easily manipulated by mass media which is owned by the "friends" of the politicians.. So is dumbness a valid excuse? I guess it is, but people can only whine about their own stupidity, not blame the politicians who are in power only because the people put them and keep them in power.