25 YR Old man hanged in Singapore for Drugs

Yes you are right, mom and Dad can not fix the problem anymore if their son or daughter has an addiction but they can support their children to come of it.

And in the first place it's the addict itself that needs to fight against the addiction by combatting the pains and chills and all that other horrible stuff.
After this society does play a big role in accepting an ex-addict again in the civilian world, but society doesn't hold the responsibility in the first place in overcoming an addict addiction problem. It is a responsibility from society to make the facilities available to overcome an addiction.

It all starts with the will of the addict itself to want to stop and all it takes is a cry for help to the right authorities (depending which country offcourse, in the netherlands there are plenty of rehab facilities) and the will to go trough with it.

Exactly, about the parents being the blame...sometimes they are truly the blame but for the large majority they where oblivious to their son or daughter's addiction.

And it's not right to condemn people if they don't have the ability to make the right decision based on expierences from others or expierence in life in general?

 

Because we are talking about drugs in this thread more then executions if you don't like it go start a thread on executions ...

Nothing will get rid of crime entirely, but legaliztion would drastically reduce crime, by elimnating the profits in the black market, eliminating the huge cost of drugs, thereby reducing the crime associated with having a habit

There are methodone clinics all over the place the show that this works, when an addict only needs a couple dollars a day to get their fix, they don't have to commit crimes.

Drugs are everywhere regardless whether they are legal or not, if you can control them, regulate and tax them it would be better for society.

Once you are convicted of felony you are screwed in the US, most good jobs are no longer availible to you for the rest of your life

 

Yeah the drugs would be cheaper meaning people dont have commit crimes to afford them (though the majority of crime stems from lack of money rather than drugs anyway).

And here lies part of the problem. If you legalise certain drugs, then there is huge incentive for private companies to get and keep people hooked. They would do a much better job than dealers and suppliers currently do - this is a point that is almost always missed.

 

If you would legalize heroine or cocaine only the main producers for instance in south America and Afghanistan and Iran are loosing the profits that are being made of it and this part of the crime that is involved will be eliminated for a great part, i agree. But when it comes to consumer level then your view is still flawed because still the end consumers are hooked on it and can not perform in real life jobs with a serious addiction. (if we are still talking about hard-drugs such as heroine and cocaine and not methodon)

And the ones that aren't expierencing a heavy addiction yet can mostly afford their addiction untill the times comes that they can not perform their real life jobs and there only chance on gaining any resources for supporting their habbit is still crime.

You talked about methadon? methodon is not a full substitute for Heroine, it's a substance to control ''the shakes'' and withdrawl expierences.
Methodon is not giving the high as heroine gives an addict, not at all.
It's only a way to suppress the withdrawl expierences and to not get ill.

Therefor people are still longing for their original high and are still resorted to the real deal...heroine.
You talk about legalizing in combination with methodon? This does not mean you are legalizing Hard-drugs itself since methodon isn't a hard-drug.

It does help reduce crime some bit but it's only a very small fraction and not even worth mentioning

If the United States aren't implementing methodon programs that is to bad for the addicts over there but it isn't a real solution to reduce crime. It does help a bit...i agree.

But legalizing real hard-drugs? and resulting in reducing crime?
Not in your life my friend it would even get worse.

True and all because of the redicalous justice system regarding hard drugs esspecially!

 

Methadone is a full substitute for heroin, its called methadone maintance. Many people perfer it to heroin addiction.

Methodone is a very hard drug and very physically addictive.

Just curious but do you have any proof of this?

becasue the national institute of health seems to say differently

At one point alcohol was illegal the same thing happened as is happening now with drugs

The war on drugs is failed policy jsut like prohibition

 

I went to Amsterdam where drugs are "legal" (well, sort of) they were cheap, and if you couldn't afford them, the government will give them to you (a daily controlled, safe amout, and also has a place for you to do them) There was no drug crime there, and I only saw 1 policeman in 10 days, everbody seemed happy. People who do drugs are going to do them, and they will quit when they are ready. Also the percentage of people who do the drugs in Amsterdan is about the same as the US. So I say, make them legal, control them, tax them and offer aid to those who want to quit. It's the best way to go.

 

NO, it's not...does it give you the same high as Heroine?
I have spoken to many addicts and asked them if it feels the same as Heroine and there replies where al the same that it doesn't give you the same high and only takes away the sickness and the need to get high is still there!

So is it a full substute? No!
The reason people prefer it to heroine adiction is because they are in the process of coming of the heroine and this gives them the same effect as heroine in the sense of the word it takes away the sickness but it doesn't give you the high.

Methadon is a addictive substance that controls the sickness of an addict but doesn't give you the high that an addict is after time after time.
Therefor in my book it isn't a hard drug but a strong medicine.

I can only speak for what i have seen in my own country and you know The Netherlands is very open about drugs, in The Netherlands there are various methadon programs available for addicts but crime because of this doesn't drop drasticly only minor.

Proof? petty crime is the most crime that derrives from addicts addiction such as shoplifting, etc.
And this isn't reduced drasticly on yearly bases because of methadon programs but more to increased security measures in the stores itself.

I can only say one thing about this and that it is BS, because some health institute says so you believe it? What do they know really?

People don't get their high from methadon so it can not effectively reduce illicit heroine use only for people that want to come of it it is a good way to overcome the addiction graduately.

 

Whhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaat, are you nuts try leaving your bike there for one second without a lock?

Where have you been in Amsterdam?

No it's not the best way to go.

 

Bikes are like high-performance cars there, the gas is so expensive that everybody rides bikes, and the bikes are public POS. The up side is that everybody is in shape. You're right about bikes being stolen, but it's not for drug money.

 

LOL Man your really funny, you know that? and we all walk on clogs right? and we all live in windmills?
The gas according to your standards in the U.S. is expensive but that doesn't hold us back riding cars bikes being public POS, WTF are you talking about?

Maybe there is some sort of little projects going on there at the time you where there. But bikes aren't public domain.
The majority of the bikes being stolen is for drug money and are stolen by junkies.

Because you don't see the crime for the short period you where there, it doesn't mean it isn't there

 

just give me a break, up to the point were you entered this thread it was fairly balanced about the guy who got punished for drug trafficing, if this could be justified etc. This thread was turned around mainly by you and your somehow mixed up convictions about a fishy liberalizitation of drugs.

 

This thread has most certainly taken a turn for the worst. From rewriting history to rewriting threads.

 

Going off topic is in general a normal occurence when discussing things, one thing leads to another...

 

oh man I feel terrible about derailing the balanced thread

Damn Mia come up with some new catch phrases

vulcano, feel free to tell us you opionions on the death sentences, usually threads often have mutiple conversations at one time. You don't have to wait for anyone to bring up points you can make them yourself.

What exactly does liberalization mean?

Edz, I thought that the netherlands experienced a huge drop of crime when drugs were legalized? Its often quoted as an example of drug legalization working.

 

"Tricked"? Give me a break..

Do you have any family or very good friends that have died from drugs?

My uncle committed suicide in my grandmothers basement b/c he was an alcoholic.

My cousin is now in prison for accessory of murder because of a drug debt.

My parents best friend died 5 years ago of a heart attack from years of coccaine usage.

I grew up in the meth capital of the U.S. - and guess what? I was never "tricked" into doing any drugs. And I don't go around blaming drug dealers for my families faults and problems.

I think I can comprehend the situations and problems as good as anyone else.

 

Well, soft-drugs are legalized but hard-drugs isn't allthough this whole legalization of Soft-drugs (Cannabis+Hash) is kind of contradictonary regarding the point of growing and selling in the shops (coffee) because you can't grow it (that is you can't own more then 30 plants) and the shops need to get it from somewhere.

So people are being put in prison in some circumstances for growing the weed but not for selling it in the coffeeshops legalized? In one way yes...in one way no

Cannabis being sold in public to everyone over 18 reducing crime? Hmm, it does reduce the hinder and annoyences that come from selling in houses in normal residential areas and giving people a place where they can smoke their weed.
Because of the weed being sold at lower prices compared to if it was illegal i agree it would reduce some crime but then i have to say also that this is or would be a very small percentage since a small majority is truly addicted to weed.

This can not be compared with hard-drugs if you truly know the nature of hard-drugs and treating it the same as soft-drugs would cause serious problems in our society.

But what has this i quoted above to with parents being the blame of an person having an addiction

Did you do any drugs at some point of your life? Like Heroine or Cocaine, Ecstasy, Cannabis, Hash or whatever?

 

No. Never. I was surrounded in a world of drugs from the time I was 5 all the way to now. They have been available to me since I was 13. I have been tempted to try it all that time.. peer pressure that you couldn't believe... but guess what? My parents told me the truth about drugs from the beginning, and I never needed more than that to not try. When your childhood consists of watching close family and friends die/jailed over drugs it's not a tough choice.

I still believe my uncle killed himself, and my cousin is locked up - because of bad parenting. Of course there are other factors like self-control, availability, etc.. but I firmly believe your childhood is the single biggest factor in your adult life decisions.

 

You believe drugs cause more crime because of addictions and that is the reason they should be outlawed?

Do you also believe alcoholic and gambling should be illegal? They must cause extra crime since they are addictive...

I just read an aritcle saying an estimated 6-10% of internet users are addicted dangerously so this must mean there will be more crime to support internet addictions? Must we outlaw the internet then like drugs?!

 

Going to chime in just for a seconds, been reading and have fought the urge to respond on a few instances. I am not realy for legalizing hard drugs, there however would be many benefits if worked out correctly including.

#1 Harder for minors to get. Why do you think illegal products are so easy for a child to get compared to something legal such as cigarettes and tobacco? This might not be in all areas of the world, where I live however it holds perfectly true.

#2 Control over manufacturing. Just like an aspirine can kill you if over used or made incorrectly, illegal hard drugs can kill when made incorrectly.
Not only for safety issues, addictive levels could be reduced if in a controlled setting. Look at tobacco for an example, alcohol, etc.

#3 Help for addicts. If controlled there could be a much better support system in place, requiring possibly even a license to get their next 'fix'. Yes any type of licensing will leave some form of a black market, but it would be greatly decreased over what it is now.

#4 Crime would not be eliminated but would go down an extent. Get rid of the dealers much of the violent crime would go away. Yes you'd still have people stealing and other petty crimes to get enough money to buy their next score, isn't that the same way with any item that's purchased. Happens every year during Christmas and I personally would rather see more petty crimes going on while reducing although not eliminating violent crimes.

It's easy to look at it and say they are bad so they should be banned, I'd rather look at how being well regulated it could make the world better, and the drug problem less. Or in other words a better solution.

I am not for big government but I would rather see big government attempt to effectively control something over outright banning it which to me is more big government than anything.