25 YR Old man hanged in Singapore for Drugs

I agree with you but however parents as a whole can not be the blame since i got this perception from reading your posts.
It was a good thing you got some good education from your parents about hard-drugs since this made you obviously much more stronger to say no to in combination with bad things happening to your family

And a lot of times even when good parenting is applied by teaching their children how develish hard-drugs can be in combination with examples of family relatives that have gone bad it's still not enough for people making the right decision towards hard-drugs. And offcourse that decision is not using it all.

Now you are generalizing every addiction and this really doesn't make sense because every kind of addiction is a case of it's own.

What i am saying was that a small percentage of weed users that can't control their usage of weed and no longer use it for recreational purposes but as a must have in their life...an uncontrolled addiction that costs money does resort to crime at some point in time.

The reason hard-drugs should be outlawed in the first place is because of the harm that comes from it, family futes, violence, crime of all ladders and all sorts of unwanted side effects from them.
And why does it become so harmfull because of addictions to the substance in the first place.

hrblcantra wrote

That can only applied in very small communities unfortunately and is therefor not a real argument to throw in.

I agree with you that control of manufacturing can be for the good to maintain quality but controlling the addictive levels is some sort of an impossible task because then you wouldn't be making a product that can not compete with the original hard-drug as heroine for example and therefor not getting the result in the first place why it has been legalized and that is to make the profits minimal for the major players in this business.

At what costs? do you want to pay for someone elses stupid decision to stay an addict? and this might encourage other people in the process to start using because they are fully supported if they want to quit or if they have medical downfalls related to heroine abuse.
This would result in extra taxes for your country, do you think this is worht it?


Think about the addict: harm to partners and children, social harm, lost productivity, drugged driving, health costs..
Legalizing is not a good idea really.

There is this big lie that legalising drugs will take the criminality out of supply. What nonsense.
Illegal traders who pay no taxes of any sort can always undercut legitimate traders.
In a larger market, they will target those excluded by age, they will target poorer, more price-sensitive areas, they will produce something "a bit stronger".
They will sell counterfeit copies of legal supplies, trading in what look like legal goods being easier than trading in totally illegal goods.

What will the criminals do in this new situation and this larger potential market?
They will adapt, they will change their methods, and they will do what criminals and smugglers have done forever.

They will survive and make money out of misery.

 

No, actually where i see golible tourists as yourself getting mugged by skinny ass junkies

 

I don't really see a whole lot of bootleg liquer or cigerettes around, I am not sure what leads you to this conclusion?

 

Because there is a difference between liquer and cigerettes and heroine

And there are a lot of counterfeit cigerettes out there but people can tell the difference and that goes the same for liquer... and consumers of liquer and cigerettes aren't to be compared with dispared numbed out dope heads

They will go for anything that can get the result their after

 

They both addictive substances, they are both legal and regulated.

And in the US I have never seen counterfeit cigerette, and I have only seen bootleg moonshine a couple times

Legalization kills black markets, the idea that legalization would lead to more blackmarket stuff seems sort of faulty.

 

Yeah small community like most of the United States, of which is where I live.

Lowering the addictiveness would be very possible and plausible while still giving the user the desired effect. Just because my cigarette is full flavour does not make it any less satisfying to me than a higher nicotine full flavoured cigarette. Yes you may use more, however look at how even those addicted to nicotine are able to quit in many cases, a slow lowering of the overall nicotine that their bodies take in. How on any aspect could you argue this could not be done, seriously not getting it.

You obviously are not seeing the cost savings, not prosecuting and taxing brings in more money than would be lost.

Completely false.

That's what I am thinking of, not thinking of any other method but banning is 'not a good idea really'.

To an extent, but they would have what maybe a 5% overall share of the market at tops compared to 100%. How would this not reduce crime. Look at alcohol prohibition and then tell me you honestly still think this.

The rest of your statement is trully just as weak. You are obviously looking at the perspective 'it's bad' ban it and don't even try to think of how controlling could help it, how sad.



-----edit, possibly depending on where you live I guess I could see a very small fraction of what you are saying. However in the US most of what you stated does not hold true.

 

I bet someone dropped some heroin in his bag.. I can't believe that human beeings can actually be so stupid that they would have heroin in their bag at an airport.

But afterall.. what's so bad about death? we will all die sometimes..

 

ferret77 wrote:

You can not compare the addiction of heroine with cigarettes and liquer
Please read my post carefully why legalization in the case of heroine would not be the solution and why the blackmarket would still be strongly present.

hrblcantra wrote:

So you couldn't get a pack of smokes when you where younger or alcohol?

Even a small community doesn't really matter that much, it only helps a little.

You can not compare heroine with cigarettes

Like some shops in the netherlands sell shitty weed that doesn't make the regular user stoned and will result in users going somewhere else to buy their product because it's effectiveness is better compared to other shops weed.
You can not enhance heroine's effectiveness and reducing addictiveness al the same, not possible.
It wouldn't be the same for the hardcore heroine addict.

Maybe for your country due to it's redicalous justice system.

If you read my post carefully you see i also wrote that another option would be to make it more stronger...and what would that effect have?
That the legalized products is being stopped from using because it's useles to use due to lack of effectiveness.

Alcohole and heroine can not be compared.

Controlling to some extend yes but in the way we do in the netherlands and that is

Making rehab possible
Give people places they can use so they don't have to use on the street.
Methodon programs to keep the users content to some degree

And nothing more...thinking legalization would the solution is just as sad as people thinking they can be stronger then the drug itself

 

Anyone who has worked or exposed to addicts will tell you a drug is a drug is drug.

It doesn't matter if its heroin or alcohol if you are addicted to it will screw you up.

So they are totally comparable

In fact alcohol addiction tends to cause more permament harm to to the body then most drug addictions.

Alcohol is physically addictive, hard core addicts get sick and even die without it

and cigerettes are supposed rival heroin in addictiveness

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/96/103554.htm

 

You really need to want to quit in order to successfully kick any habit. No one can convince you or pressure you into it. A program may get you clean for a while, but unless you have made a commitment to yourself (no one else, but you and God), your chances of staying clean are slim to none.

 

I didn't even live in a big city making it not as easy to get drugs if I wanted them, even still in a small remote town drugs were still EASIER to get them tobacco or alcohol. Alot easier buying from someone who is already breaking the law than buying from a store who cards it's customers.

I was not comparing the 2 as exact equals, both however have addictive properties. I also suggest you look into tobacco in it's unrefined state before talking such nonsense.

Yes in my country of which I am speaking of.

Incorrect you are trying to come up with fantasies to try to make your point sound believeable. Alcohol and heroin can be compared if you're talking strengths. 190 proof alcohol while not impossible to find is much harder to find than 80 proof, yet it does not make the 80 proof any less pleasing to it's user. You are speaking from absolutely no first hand knowledge I take it?
Then answer me this, how come so many users who have used hard drugs for years have used hard drugs that are stronger than they are used to any do not like it or die from it? Yep they'd be running out trying to get a stronger form, do you have ANY experience either first hand or friends and family in this issue?

In the netherlands you control the production realy? You control who sells the hard drugs? You control the buying of the hard drugs?

Legalization is not a solution, legalization with understanding and controls put into place is far better than a simple outright ban.

 

BS, smoking weed on a daily basis and smoking heroine on a daily basis isn't he same. Clearly you haven't have any expierence with drugs whatsoever or with addicts.

No they are not *sigh* or would you contradict the fact that it's much much easier to get hooked on heroine then on alcohol.
Some people are an addict for life after using heroine for one time, one time

When using alcohol for the first time you don't get these urges as bad as with heroine.
And posting articles shows only that what you know if is about a book or tv and not from real life expierences itself.

 

So wanting ''legal''drugs as an minor wouldn't be that hard now, would it?

Trying to add something i didn't say as a smokescreen are you? cigarettes and heroine can't be compared when you talk about addiction and the harmfull derrivitives that come from it.

Yes i'm saying that aren't i?

I'm not sure what your point is but it's just another part of your smokescreen.

And i am speaking of first hand knowledge...

The reason because people die from it is because they can not determine their boundries...the expierence of a terrific high and a Overdosis is not far apart.
They don't liking it? If you get high you'll like it!

Because i have friends and family that have and some still their lives totally disrupted and own personal struggles with drug addiction... i can say YES i know this by first hand.

I am discussing this matter here with you guys from my point of view of real life-facts that i have expierenced

 

Am I the one generalizing about every addiction? See your comments below:

So any uncontrolled addiction (whether drug, gambling, pornography, internet, etc) as you stated will create crime at some point....

So once again, I ask - should all of these things be outlawed? Using your logic and reasoning the answer must be Yes.... otherwise your reasons are flawed

 

What does wanting have anything to do with being able to get?

Not at all, please reread the posts.

Please reread posts. If anything is a smoke screen it's your failure to respond.

Many die from overdose which is caused by bad drugs, as in badly made.

So do I.

I am discussing it with not only first hand knowledge but with research as well that I have previously done.

 

Before I leave this thread ( am unsubscribing because it has turned to crap ) I will share just one little thing about heroin and other drugs like it that leans my bias towards capital punishment for possession, as well as an adamant angst at legalizing it.

Until you see what this shit does and the direct and indirect ways it really does affect not only a single human life (the user) as well as those around them, family, friends, co-workers, CHILDREN, etc., there is no way you can begin to either compare it to cigarettes and alcohol, or profess to consider Singapore's laws unjust or barbaric.

I know (well knew) a heroin addict that died. He did not OD. He did not rob, kill, or get killed. He did not get so sick he just died from the addiction. He did not kill himself. He got Aids.

He started out just smoking pot. Interesting how a straight, married (twice) man, with 2 boys could get Aids. (back then people still called it a "fag" disease, which is BULLSHIT)

Life is a funny thing. Heroin in and of itself is more than an addiction. It is a death sentence unto itself. All Singapore has done is bring conclusion to an ending sooner rather than later.

This January, the day before my Birthday, it will be 10 years since I watched my Uncle die. Hanging would have been Mercy. I only hope no one has to experience this.

 

I'm sorry for the loss but I have to ask he never drank a drop of alcohol or smoked a cigarette before pot? #2 the process of banning a substance creates instances such as this, not the other way around.

Yes it is bad, Yes people should not use it, but failing to seperate what the actual drug does in itself if well regulated compared to what a ban on the substance does it just as dangerous as the drug itself.

If there was a way to totally eliminate a hard drug such as this I'd be all for it, there however is no way thought up yet and in the process of this war on drugs only creates more problems than it solves.

----I also am thinking of getting out of this thread. It's great people are against hard drugs, it's sad when they cloud their judgement to the point though they can not even see through facts from fiction. 'not talking about you mia '

 

So instead of your uncle having a chance to turn his life around if he had been caught you would rather he was execured?

 

If a country is going to enforce the death penalty it should execute quickly; By doing so, it truly deters others from repeating the same offense. Countries that wait 20 years to carry out an execution does nothing to deter crime.

 

They did good them!
This heroin could killed many other childs!
Better kill one than XXXX