Anyone Practice martial arts?

Looks like there are only a couple of styles that really stand a chance in the UFC. You have to be very good at ground fighting. Wrestling and Jujitsu are the only styles that work. Nobody's come up with a style that's fast enough or hits hard enough to keep someone from taking you to the ground.
My conclusion is the Bruce lee and chuck Norris wouldn't stand much of a chance without a point system and rules that keep someone from taking you to the ground. The only system that works in a real fight is ground fighting!!

 

I've never heard of it, is there a website with more info?

Yeah, that is a problem, because the majority of martial arts were designed so long ago in a world very different to ours. I mean, northern shaolin has a lot of jumps and flying kicks and stuff - they lived in a mountainous area (northern China) and used the kicking to knock guys off horses, plus they lived in temples with ample space to move around. Also, the way of life was very different back then. Not only did you have time to study MA full-time, you also did a lot more walking (especially long-distance if your were poor), so you would see trouble coming and have room for all the jumping around and stuff.

Nowadays, people don't have the time to learn complicated forms and moves to the point where they are effective. Plus things are far more cramped, esp in areas where you are most likely to find trouble (bars, your home, alleys, etc). As most attacks are sudden and start within very close range, if you were wanting to do MA for self-defense, either learn a close-range style (wing chun/tsun, Goju-Ryu karate, grappling styles) or learn a long-range style and modify it for close-range use (which can take time and can also be difficult to do, as you have to understand the principles of the techniques first)

Another problem with MA (and a concern to those who do it for self-defense) is all the sports MA (especially in karate ). People nowadays (i find) are far more materialistic and want instant gratification (and need a physical object to prove their success, the sad shallow people), plus they don't want to go through all the rough, painful training that traditional MA normally involves (esp the body-conditioning) so they go for semi-contact sports fighting. It's easier and they get a nice shiny piece of metal too. This is particularly bad with the M3s (medal-mad-mothers, aka soccer moms) who want to have something to boast about amongst their friends and colleagues, so they push (and sometimes force) their little darling(s) (who arent allowed to do all the 'nasty', 'violent' fighting) to do semi-contact sports fighting (then have the nerve to claim that their little angel can defend themselves ). Instructors (esp those who rely on MA as their main source of income) are finding it increasingly difficult to keep students, as the less sports MA they do, they fewer students they keep. Hence all the weak dojos and schools around, where they have top (tournament) fighters who routinely get owned in any non-sports fight.

About a century ago (before it was outlawed), apparently many styles made it a part of the black-belt (or equivalent) grading that you had to go into town, find the biggest, most bad-ass person you could find, then pick a fight with him. if you beat him, you got the grade. Then, some dojos in certain countries made gym-busting a part of the grading. Gym-busting is where you walk into another dojo or school and pick a fight with (normally) their best fighter. That got outlawed too. Especially as the victim (esp if they were defeated) laid charges against the gym-buster

 

That's a common assumption amongst people watching things like UFC. Initially, strikers dominated those events. Then the Gracie family came and upset everything, and grappling became dominant. Then, the strikers studied grappling (especially to find weaknesses) and started dominating again. The grapplers were forced to learn striking to stand a chance. It basically swings to and fro like this. One crowd dominates, the other learns how to over-come and then dominates, etc, etc.

The thing with grappling, is that it's brilliant for events like UFC and PRIDE Fighting. The rules really hammer the strikers, as no groin-shots, throat-shots, eye-gouging, fish-hooking, etc are allowed. joint-shots aren't really allowed either. As the most vulnerable areas aren't allowed to be hit, the striker's targets are rather limited. Grapplers, however, have much more freedom, as their moves are submissive in nature.

However, a grappler in a street-situation is at a disadvantage. The a ring it's you versus you're opponent. In the street, most attackers are cowards and will only try anything with their 'homies' nearby. Thus, many grapplers have gone to the ground, wrapped an assailant up into a neat little knot, only to have a homie come stab them and kick the crap out of him, as he's still intangled with the first guy. Also, would you want to go rolling on the floor of a dirty bar with someone?

 

I took Karate for 4 years when I was younger (around 10) then quit a few months short of getting my black belt. I recently got interested in martial arts again, but I would like to do muay thai or submission fighting (preferably militant-style). I just can't find any schools or anything around here.

 

I always thought the “grappler in a street fight will be at a huge disadvantage” argument is pure crap.

I mean how often are people involved in 4 on 1 street fights? The other thing is if you are heavily outnumbered there’s not a good ‘style’ to help you go toe-to-toe with against a group of people.

Most grapplers that know anything aren’t going to have a tough time or spend a lot of time rolling around with someone on the ground that doesn’t have any training. The regular guy would have an arm broken or be choked out pretty quick. It’s not like it’s a 30-minute ordeal.

And as far as rolling around on a dirty bar floor. It’s a f*cking fight. I’m not really worried about my pants getting a little stain on them. Blood is going to be spilled and clothes ripped. A dirty floor is hardly an argument for preferring a striking discipline. Most people that train in MA aren’t thinking, mmm I wonder what will work better in a bar fight.

The people that do really well in MMA events like the UFC are people that are more rounded and have a diverse background.

 

Muay thai a rare art? never heard of it being an rare art, there are plenty of muay thai schools in the area i live in and beyond so there is nothing rare about that Muay thai= using your elbows, knees, fists, shins, and in thailand they even give headbuts.

Muay thai is Thai boxing...only difference is the name they call it.

What would be different? Art form? Get out of here

Can you plant an elbow on someone's face? Can you give a hard low-kick to the shins and thighs? Can you plant your fist in someone's face? Can you give someone a high knee to his ribs? can you give someone a headbut? Can you throw someone to the ground when someone's is clinching you? Can you make a backfist? Can you make a high roundhouse kick?

If above questions are answered are yes then you know muay thai...only can you give any resistance to thai-boxers from thailand, muay thai practicionars?

It's the same m8



Someone may know the basics of muay thai (thai boxing) but it wil always be a contest of the fittest and who's going to endure the pain of kicks and punches and the ability to knock the other guy out preferbly.

I agree in a situation with multiple opponents you would definately be in a disadvantage but in a one to one situation it could be helpfull, especially when the first strike of yourself didn't do the trick to end the fight.
Most streetfights end up on the ground when the first 3 to 4 seconds didn't result in a knock out or demobilizing a person so then grappling gives you a huge advantage.

Often! it happens a lot when people are getting into a discussion for whatever stupid reason and then start to fight and when the fight begins and you where the one that got there by yourself you are suddenly suprised by some friends of the person you are rolling on the floor with. And then you're f&*ked.

Only use grappling in situations you know that the person you can not avoid to fight with is alone.
So in a bar situation i wouldn't suggest grappling because it has a high risk factor getting a smashed beer bottle in you neck and not because you want to prevent getting your pants dirty.

But i don't think you should take Relixx comment about not wanting getting your pants dirty to littarely. I think and correct me if i am wrong here Relixx that he meant it's best to use techniques to end the fight as quick as possible and avoid using grappling techniques.

And offcourse who cares if you're pants get dirty or what ever, like you said it's a fight

Like i said it happens more then you think and i think in these situations krav maga and other military type style hand to hand mortal combat techniques can save your ass. Only downfall with this is that you need to get the f&*k out of there as quick as possible and avoid being seen getting in your car or whatever because you could get some extra time on your hands in.......prison.

In my oppinion you should not think of grappling someone but to demobilize the opponent as quick as possible.
If you have any relatives or friends in the military i bet they can teach you a thing or two about taking someone out and offcourse grappling are also techniques they might have learned but it's not a preffered offensive attack.

And a offensive attack is worth gold in my oppinion.

 

If you are looking for a good technique for street fighting aikido's moves can be good in narrow places and against many opponents.
Here are some examples:light excercises and how to take knife and against several people
The way you can move an opponemts own body against it's self with pressure points and joint pain will deter a grappler.

Oh yeah and that last one works great at shoe sales!

 

Note I said "disadvantage" and not "huge disadvantage". Grapplers will automatically want to go to the ground. In a group fight that's a bad idea (unless you have friends there too ) as if you get tied up putting a guy in a lock on the ground, it can take a few precious seconds to get out of it, which is all someone needs to knife you

Out-numbered fights happen more often than you think. For example, you and a dude in a bar get into an argument, and he wants to "take this outside". You agree, but notice that several other guys, who turn out to be his buddies, get up and leave with you two... Then of course, you get the roaming gangs of youths (hoodies, chavs, gangsters, etc, etc) who are only brave enough to come at you as a group, as groups are more intimidating. Also, there's sporting matches (eg, basketball, soccer) where things can turn nasty, and it's a group-fight. School bullies often operate as a gang as well (well, in my country they do). Even if you challenge a single person in a gang to a one-on-one fight, the gang will invariable get involved (esp if you're busy winning the fight).

First of all, let's break down "grappling". When i say "grapplers" or "grappling" I'm talking about ground fighting, like you see the fights often boil down to in UFC, etc. ground fighting is when both fighters are on the ground, trying to get out of locks and holds and put the other guy into one, at the same time (ju-jitsu, roman-greco wrestling, brazilian jui-jitsu, etc). "Clinching" is the stuff like you see Steven Seagall do. It's the wrist, arm and joint (etc, etc) locks and holds that are done standing up. These form a part of many "striking" MA too (karate, aikido, wing tsun, etc). Now, that's why I say grapplers are at a disadvantage in a group fight. A lot of their locks and holds involved utilising their body (eg, arms, legs, etc) to trap parts of their opponenet's body in such a way that it immobilises them through pain or injury. Thus, if you aren't applying pressure or holding him, the techniques won't work. however, to do these ground techniques they have to tangle their limbs up to get the leaverage, etc. Think of WWE. Kurt Angle is an technical wrestler who does a lot of ground work. How many times has he been on the mat, wrapped up in a lock (his opponent screaming in pain) and someone comes in and starts kicking him? (and before you go "wrestling's fake!" let me remind you that Angle is an olympic champion, and a lot of the ground-fighting moves he uses are the same used by olympic and MA grapplers throughout the world). It doesn't have to be a 30-minute deal, all it takes is a few seconds of you being on the ground for someone to start stabbing you. Ever seen a fight where a dude fell to the ground, only to be swarmed by a group of guys, all kicking the crap out of him? That's why you don't want to end up on the ground in a fight, and if you do you want to get up again ASAP

Ok, a bar fight breaks out. bottles get broken, leaving shards of glass (and broken bottles) on the floor, plus there's spilled beer all over the place. Plus, there are people (some drunk) moving all over the place fighting amongst the confined area (thanks to the pool tables, tables, etc). In the chaos, would you want to end up on the floor with broken glass, beer, and spilled blood that could contain AIDS? And if someone steps on you, falls on you, or starts kicking you simply because there's a fight on? If you're grappling with someone on the floor, not only are you an easy target, but you'll have a dude on the ground pissed off with you, plus some idiot kicking you from behind.

I know, they have to. I already mentioned why (one group dominates, the other learns how to overcome them, etc, etc)

You'd be suprised at the number of martial artists who do. Wing Tsun and JKD people do it all the time (well, the ones in my country do), hell the JKD people are constantly trying to figure that out. The local Wing Tsun teacher used to go to bars simply to watch the fights and see what would work and what wouldn't.

 

I watched a documentary about this at discovery.. it said that MA is useless in street fighting becaus of all rules within every sport. If you want to beat others on the street than you better train ultimate fighting instead. Aikido, karate and kung-fu is a nice art ofcourse.

 

it's not the style that wins the fight, it's the student - Japanese saying

To say that a MA is pointless in a fight is stupid. I know of many MA practioners who do "useless" arts (myself included) who have successfully defended themselves in a street-fight (i've defended myself against a group, too. Some even had knives). All a MA does is equip you with tools to fight. Its up to the student to use the skills taught.

 

I am a master at Gun-Fu

 

In my original post I forgot that the UFC does have rules like no kicks to the groin etc.
But real fighting has rules too. You agree or not.
If you get in a bar fight are you going to gouge out his eye's or cripple him for life? Very tough question, you might lose if you don't do something and he might cripple you for life. So what do you do?

 

I don't know, man. Most bar fights I've been invloved with end in a few seconds.

People and bouncers usually jump in and thow people out and then call the cops. And even if you were winning the fight, when the cops show up they cuff you, slam you down on their car and beat you up a little themselves.

 

Exactly. Too many people in this thread have watched too many movies and haven't taken enough punches to the face and given enough.

 

I got my jaw, neck lower back and ankle broken. Then took classes.

Next time ...score.... me fractured wrist. Opponent.. nose broken four places three fractured ribs. Black eye..some missing teeth. thirty years to life.

---and then I got the best pair of pumps for three bucks!(j/K)---


So in truth..taking MA and a few classes called "one hundred ways to kill with an ashtray" will really help you defend yourself.

 

I've never taken any MA classes I just had really informative teen years.

I fought one guy that had been taking classes for years. Apparently they were real big on the "cup the other guy's balls with your hands while he smashes your face in" defense.

 

....whoa!

Corena, your decoupage just keeps getting better and better!

 

[QUOTE:=latehorn]I watched a documentary about this at discovery.. it said that MA is useless in street fighting because of all rules within every sport. /QUOTE]

My instructor told me a story once about a bar that was just down the street from my house.
The bouncers ( big guys ) were trying to throw this guy out of the bar.
And I know this place and they have at least 6 or 7 bouncers there. This guy was kicking the sh*t out of everyone. So my instructor ask them if they wanted help. Anyway my instructor real hurt this guy pretty bad I guess putting him in the hospital. The guy was no match for him because of all the years of training he had. The guy in the bar might of been a black-belt in whatever style. And he was able to fend off all the bouncers just from his training. But when go up against a 9th degree black-belt there is so much difference between the two. The guy had no chance.


So I have to disagree with the discovery channel saying MA is useless in street fighting.

 

thanks..I am saving room on the couch for summer, shawn etc..but I do not put anyone in that has not mentioned wanting to be.

 

Nice one