Bait and Switch by vbSEO

First off, let me say that I am not in the habit of slandering companies by any means. I think it's not only unprofessional but often uncalled for as most things can often be a simple misunderstanding but this was clearly not the case and should be exposed.

I was mortified to experience such a bait and switch approach to doing business. While in 10+ years in ecommerce, I've seen it all, but even this is really low.

I assist in managing several forums amongst other sites online. Clients I work with often use forums as a springboard to much larger projects, in an attempt to gain popularity before releasing their primary product or service. I find it an good way at gaining attention to a site and foster some confidence in the target audience you are looking to sell.

Out of 30+ forums I consult on, about 10 of those run vbulletin and 5 of those vbseo of which 4 I purchased directly. I think while there are alternatives, for those clients I deal with that can afford it, it's a good alternative to makeshift solutions.

After this last buy of vbseo, I log into their interface to download the product and I see something new, an expire date. I was very confused, first being that I'd never seen this before and secondly because I had purchased a lifetime product with my understanding of support and service from what otherwise seemed a good company. Why else would anyone pay $149 on an add-on to an $89 product? More so, while I don't read every last word of a TOS, I do review the highlights but this was clearly my understanding before making any purchase online.

To my surprise, after some research and contact with support, I find that while they may call it a "lifetime" license, it's far from it. For $149, you buy the right to use the software for the life of the product but after the first year, you must pay $35.00 a year for updates, something that was definitely not in the sales process.

Feel free to point it out? Definitely not clear if it's even there.

Sales Page - http://www.vbseo.com/purchase/

Purchase Page - https://www.vbseo.com/purchase/buy-vbseo-bulk.html

I'm sure it's somewhere in their 73,398 post but clear, nope.

I can say without a doubt this is disgraceful. I know that vbSEO is meticulous about keeping an eye on things people say about them publicly so let me say this, one of the companies I work with is one of the largest risk management companies online so trust me when I say this is without a doubt the quickest way to an immediate chargeback. Not only is it unethical, it's disgraceful and something you would expect of a fly by night operation.

Before this, I had always hands down respected vbSEO, I thought they ran a great company and have a great product. While it may be overpriced to most, I respect it and would have purchased many more licenses until now. Rest assured the next time anyone ask me whether I recommend vbSEO as so many do, I will point them in any direction.

Second rule of sales, 1 happy customer tells 2 people, 1 unhappy customer tells 20.

Please, tell me I am wrong, I am looking forward to their response here.

 

should call it per annum license
i notice v7n is using vbseo, and the page url is optimised for seo. think for big site, its worth to pay, for continues support/updates if any.

 

A few big sites use it, not many but a few do. I love the software, no doubt but yes, absolutely, they should call it an annual license, otherwise support it.

 

Hi pc_user,

Your expiry date only pertains to access to upgrades.

A lifetime license means that once purchased, you can use the software indefinitely. A leased license is for a fixed time period, and requires renewal to continue using it.

If you have any further questions, please post them directly at www.vbseo.com, within our support ticketing system or via our forums.

 

Please show me on either of these pages where ANY of this is mentioned? Does anyone see ANY reference to this $35.00 fee?

Sales Page - http://www.vbseo.com/purchase/

Purchase Page - https://www.vbseo.com/purchase/buy-vbseo-bulk.html

I've have made copies of the pages in case they do get changed now which at the very least I recommend.

I can assure you and anyone reading, this is absolutely a justified chargeback and more so unethical for any company to act in that fashion and you know that.

I myself won’t but if anyone wishes to initiate a chargeback based on this clear and deliberate attempt to garner lost revenue from competition, please feel free to contact me and I’ll put you in touch with some chargeback experts.

PS. This is not a support matter; this is a notice to all forum owners on your business tactics. People often ask me and more so come here trying to decide between vbseo and other options, I just wanted them to be fully aware of what they are getting into because it’s clear you do not disclose this critical detail.

 

Do you expect FREE upgrades for Windows? Photoshop? Do they tell you that you have to, I don't know, PAY to get upgrades? No, they don't, because it's OBVIOUS. Microsoft won't give you Windows 2100 for free just because you bought Windows 3.1 and they don't tell you this explicitly because it's common sense.

Jelsoft does the same thing with vBulletin. You pay $160 and you can USE the product forever. But if you want UPGRADES, you pay $35 per year.

You really are behaving completely and utterly childish.

 

Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows NT, all their product specific upgrades are provided for the life of the product absoultely free. Yes, you pay to upgrade to the next version but if you are using Windows XP, as long as they support that, you will get updates. In case you need it, their update server is http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/

As for vbulletin, here is the sales page

http://www.vbulletin.com/order/

As you see, it clearly states "Beyond the first year, you will have to pay a nominal fee, currently $30, to obtain updates for an additional year."

Show me where that is on the vbseo sales page or their payments page?

Sales Page - http://www.vbseo.com/purchase/

Purchase Page - https://www.vbseo.com/purchase/buy-vbseo-bulk.html

If we are going to use the comparison of vbulletin then use their page in comparison.

 

If we are already comparing vBSEO to Microsoft, let's do so properly.

Yes, you get updates to the current version of Windows for free and you only have to pay for the next version. With vBSEO's product, you have one year of free upgrades and after that you get updates for the current version AND upgrades to the next version for $35.

If Microsoft did this, they would charge you, say, $200 for your first purchase and then you'd get Windows 2100 for $35.

So how on earth is this a valid reason for a chargeback when you got what you paid for? IF YOU WANT MORE, YOU PAY MORE.
They delivered EXACTLY what you ordered and after the purchase you get an upsell for future products. There's no law anywhere that companies have to provide free updates or upgrades to products or even tell people how much these updates or upgrades have to cost.

To make another analogy: I drive to the next gas station thinking "I'll fill it up and get a free car wash on top of it because there's no price outside for the car wash". Then you have a guy there trying to upsell you and you yell "I didn't know you had to pay extra for the car wash, I want to get the money back that I paid for the gasoline".

But please, give this issue to your chargeback experts. Don't forget to post a transcript here, I want to have a laugh as well.

Oh, btw:

Why not? You claim your position is completely valid, so why not take the product AND get the money back? Or do you have so much money that you just can't be bothered to lift a finger and call your chargeback experts?

 

Obviously working with vbulletin through your own vbulletin module and most likely as a vbseo user, you have a lot of support for vbseo as I did. I guess the difference is unlike you I disclosed that. You can make this about me but that has no validity here.

Fact is, and everyone knows one of the biggest issues with vbseo is in fact the price and I can pretty much assure you that amongst the hundreds of threads and post I hear about people trying to justify price, had they added the price of $149 + $35.00 a year on the sales page as they would otherwise be required by their merchant service agreement to do, they would lose out on many sales that would otherwise go elsewhere.

It’s wrong, unethical and without a doubt violates the merchant service agreement they would have which requires full disclosure of such a cost which I notice they have still yet added to their sales page which at the very least would be good business practice and again I think we all know that but of course how many sales would they lose then.

 

Geez, did you even read what I wrote? I'll copy and paste the relevant parts for your convenience since you obviously can't be bothered to read them in my first post.

Their upsell tactic is completely legitimate and something similar is being used everywhere around the world. On- and offline.

FYI, I have never used vBSEO before. I just have a problem with people who pull stuff out of their ass and try to badmouth a reputable company.

 

Why are you making this personal rather than the facts? Check the records, I have actively supported vbseo in my post before I found about this.

In response to your point, you are 100% right. There is no law requiring any company to provide free anything. Where there is a law is that companies must disclose their cost to potential buyers. Not only is that a law in most countries and a rule with any merchant account, its ethical business.

Please try to keep this to the point, making it personal and using that type of language only makes you look bad. I've kept this professional and would appreciate the same thing. Fact is I am calling out a foul here and everyone knows that.

 

So they ARE giving you their price, aren't they? You pay $149 or whatever and you get to use their product forever.
If you want future products you have to pay for them. Microsoft isn't going around putting a label on their Windows Vista boxes saying "if you want Windows 2100 you'll have to pay an additional $200".

And you still haven't answered the most important question: Why aren't you issuing that chargeback you are claiming is totally legit? Do you have too much money? Did those chargeback experts laugh at you?

 

Again with the personal attacks.

As I stated previously, I have 5 sites running vbseo and to change those now would be detrimental as I am sure you would agree. There is no doubt that it's a good product, I have never questioned that and there is no doubt that it does a lot of good but doubt comes into business practices where is clearly a factor here.

As I stated, while I have been an active supporter of vbseo in the past, that will not be the case moving forward and while you may or may not be a financial supporter of them, I've purchased many licenses and recommended many more but that is no longer the case.

To compare this to others like Microsoft has no value. When I purchase a Microsoft product, a vbulletin product and or any software product, the terms are clearly spelled out on the sales pages and that wasn't the case here. Fact is, there are a lot of software products where you make a one time purchase and you do receive life time updates and fact is there are a lot of software products where you do pay an annual subscription, heck, I’ve seen quarterly subscription but what ever that process is, when you make the purchase, it's absolutely clear in that process and unless you can show me where that is spelled out on these pages, then that's what it is.

Sales Page - http://www.vbseo.com/purchase/

Purchase Page - https://www.vbseo.com/purchase/buy-vbseo-bulk.html

Fact is, if this were simply a matter of me, that's one thing but you can find hundreds and hundred of pages where the price of vbseo is an active topic of discussion and I can assure you that at least in 99% of those discussions it in fact does not say $149 + $35 a year, to which you yourself have been part of.

 

pc_user has a definate point. Stating that it's a lifetime license with no recurring fee for updates or support is false advertising. pc_user would be able to, no doubt, issue a chargeback successful with the evidence he has presented and could actually win a case in court with the evidence and vBSEO's response.

 

Their CURRENT product costs you $149. If you want FUTURE products you have to pay. The law you pointed out that companies have to clearly state the total cost would be relevant if vBSEO had some shipping charges or taxes they hide from you on the sales page, which they don't. No one forces them to say anything about future products.

When you can provide a court ruling stating that their business practices are in fact illegal I will happily say that I was wrong, otherwise you're just yet another troll to me. Good day.

It is a lifetime license because you can use the product indefinitely. A lifetime license doesn't mean you get future products for free.

 

and the personal attacks just continue.

You are right, wouldn't it be nice if they said that on their sales page.

Much appreciate egs.

Ultimately guys, I am not asking to win a chargeback, I am not asking to do anything more than to express my disbelief. I have always been a great fan of this company and its products and more so, it’s support. To have found out this way was such a poor way of treating what would otherwise be a good client. I imagine if everyone knew about this, there would be a sudden decrease in vbseo sales. While they have enjoyed a sense of little to no competition to date, that is quickly changing and while they may be able to stronghold the marketplace with a great product for another year at least, ultimately it’s going to come down to the perception of the company and the way it treats it’s clients and this is certainly not the way to do that. At the very least take the ethical road, lose a few sales sure but post it on the sales page as to what the fees really are.

That at the very least is the right thing to do.

 

Icheb, you're making an ass out of yourself. You don't call me a troll when my reputation is overall higher than yours, let alone I've been a contributing member a bit longer than you.

The fact of the matter is that the company (vBSEO) is trying to charge hidden fees; the product the company is selling states that the product is lifetime. There is no statement declaring that the product is only updated for one year to the consumer; ultimately being that the product is being advertised as a "lifetime" license, the consumer is convinced for lifetime updates.

Nowhere on the site does it state that updates after one year will discontinued unless the consumer pays a nonimal annual fee. The fact of the matter is that the company is practicing an unethical and ILLEGAL marketing strategy: false advertising.

If you have not taken a business class, or don't know anything about business too, the fact of the price and the advertisement is similar to a contract, in which you can rightfully bring to court as the provider of the product is not really providing a "lifetime" license as advertised. Jelsoft has protected themselves as a company issuing lifetime licenses with updates for annual fees - it's advertised to the consumer, and it makes sense. There are no "hidden fees" associated with that company.

 

When I purchased vbSEO a few weeks ago I didn't know there was a $35 fee per year until just now. I'm not really going to complain about it but I do with it was more clear.

Icheb, you are talking about 2 different things. Buying a new version of windows and updating vbSEO. If vbSEO came out with a new major version I would understand an upgrade fee. But paying to get standard updates kind of sucks. What if there is a security hole found? We have to pay to get that update, you don't have to do that in Windows do you? No, because windows updates are free.

 

Security updates for these kind of products (virtual products) are necessary because if your product is compromised (hacked, etc), then your product is no longer a product, thus meaning the consumer did not pay what he/she paid for because it is unstable, does not work, is broken, etc.

 

A few things are clear and indisputable.

• These fees are not disclosed properly, i.e. sales page or order page
• Despite the fact that vbseo knows this is a factor, they have yet to change this
• Many like myself were not aware of these fees
• This practice is not only unethical but does violate msp rules and regulations
• vbseo offers a great product, great service and good support

I guess ultimately it's going to come down to whether they plan to do the right thing here. Adding a few lines of text on their sales page and order page is certainly not the hardest thing to do and at the very least will not shock clients after the fact like it did me and I am sure many others.