Capitalism... why so bad?

Zman

The first thing which is wrong is the fact that you are not talking about Capitalism. Writing a book or having money has got nothing to do with capitalism. The capitalism as economy system is defined on how wealth is produced, the cost of labor and distribution of wealth produced and the ownership of production tools.
For example, if you are smart car trader that buys and sells car the whole day and make a lot of money on each car and in the end of year you are multi-millioner, it doesn't mean that you are a capitalist, it only means that you are rich.
The very simple explanation and in no way complete definition of capitalism is that wealth is only produced through labor, a group in the society own the means of production and do not pay for part of labor that is done by workers. This group profits from owning capital (means of production) and therefore is called capitalist.
You can work as hard as you like and make as much money as you like and you won't be capitalist as long as you don't own means of production and profit from unpaid portion of other people labor.
There is a lot of hype about capitalism and alternatives but very few discuss it from scientific point of view and mostly the discussions becomes one form of propaganda or another.

The Capitalism itself got nothing to do with social policies but many use it to scare people by saying that if you are for a responsible social policies then you are against capitalism and you are socialist and don't want people have money or get rich which is not true.
I was involved in business all my life from the first year of university in 1970's and I have been very successful but I totally support the social policies that helps the weak in our society independent if it is disabled, homeless or unemployed. I think this type of programs when done right are the long term investments and more profitable than dealing with crimes and cost of prisons.

 

I strongly disagree.

I'll quote the part you left out.

Write a book and distribute it to make money. Does that not fall into what Webster says it means?

 

You disagree with what? This is what Webster also says:

"private or corporate ownership of capital goods", capital goods doesn't mean your car or refrigerator, it means the goods necessary for production.

I don't need to write a book, there are enough books by specialist in this field such as Smith, Ricardo, Marx and Keynes. You just need to go to library and read it, although to understand Marx book Capital, you need a good knowledge in math.
Before you call me pink commie because I mention Marx, you must know that I have read Capital as required reading in American University and it has got nothing to with his political writing but purely is about economy.

 

Stop trying to paint capitalism as a bad guy. Or are you not here to make money?

 

This is a stupid comment, how did I paint capitalism as bad guy? is it because, I pointed out that you don't know what capitalism is?
Have you ever read Smith or anyone else on this subject?

 

That is your opinion. I am confident that I understand the idea behind Capitalism. I just dont understand why you are more interested in twisting it to match your thoeries about America rather than addressing the topic of the thread by stating what you think is bad about it. Thats all.

 

For someone that bashes America all the time why would you live in America and go to an American University? It seems kind of hypocritical to me. What a sell-out.

 

Can you please tell me how you understood the idea behind capitalism and what you have have based it on? Did you read Smith, Marx, Keynes or did you see it on some TV commercial?
If you think that I am twisting the idea of Capitalism then it means all the economists are wrong and you are the one who should write a book that they can teach in universities instead of these classics, twisted theories.

Learn about the science instead of just repeating some buzz words such as capitalism or free market. There was never a free market and there is not one today. For example a true capitalism requires a free movement of capital and work force, so why don't your government lets all the Mexican to come to USA? Why should an employer pay a high minimum wage to an American worker when a Mexican immigrant can do it cheaper? Why does your government impose custom duties on softwood lumber from Canada which makes it more expensive for American customers to help the producers in USA?

True capitalism, free market are good words for elections and propaganda but got nothing to do with real world.

Disagreeing with Mr. Bush and his government is not bashing America. This is the mentality that government has imposed on you. Learn from history, senator McCarthy did the same thing and everyone against him was a commie and against America but history proved that he was hateful little man that did not care about America or anything else as long as it served his ambitions.
I have always liked America and that is the reason I have both a house and different businesses in your country. I believe respecting the law and human rights is in the long term interest of America and American people while this government policies is very short sighted and only serves the economic benefits of very few in a short run.

 

Apparently English Comp 101 was not a required class at the American University you attended.

 

In short... no.

That isnt what I started this thread for.

WHY IS IT BAD? or do you think it is good?

 

First you must define what you mean by Capitalism before I can say if it is good or bad. It is a stage in economical development of human race which was made possible by few inventions such as clock and concentration of capital through east India trade.
If you mean by Capitalism that you can work, earn some money and buy a car or a house and nobody is going to take it from you, then I think is good.

 

It’s not just Bush Bashing. You lash out on anything anyone says is pro-America and defend known terrorists. You arguments always read like a textbook. It’s obvious your “knowledge” comes from two semesters of PolySci. It’s ludicrous you could compare McCarthy and Bush. See that’s where the textbook approach comes from. Looks like one week you covered the McCarthy Act. Way to work in that week of class into the conversation.

The fact that you went to school here and have a house here pretty much discounts any argument you have ever made. I bet it really drives you crazy during President’s Day when you go outside and see all of the US Flags waving in the wind.

 

Please tell me what is the logic for your posting or at least show me where I lashed out against anything pro-America or defended terrorists.

May be it is hard for you to understand but BUSH IS NOT AMERICA.

 

When have I said anything about Bush? That's your standard argument. I haven't discussed Bush. Yet the fallacy in your argument is Americans "think
Bush equals Jesus". I mean stop riding that one trick pony into the ground. It’s funny how you didn't ask me to find any posts in which you defend terrorists though.

 

Since I haven't posted anything that defends terrorists, please try to find such posting.

 

I’m not going to go back through all of your idiotic postings. Anybody can read a variety of posts in which you equate board members to Nazis, call them members of the KKK, state they place Bush on the same level as Jesus, and call many Americans ignorant.

Here are a few that Gtech pulled out.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=299092&postcount=1287

And here’s you defending the country that you love with this quote. http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=310857&postcount=1

Apparently, when you were learning how to better hate America you weren’t really learning how to make a valid argument or the meaning of the word hypocrite. Our economy, education system, and housing is good enough for you, but not our president, politics, foreign policy, or citizens.

 

Now that is a fine come back.

 

Your mentor Gtech has just posted bunch of links without mentioning what is wrong with it, why don't you tell us what part of my postings you disagree with instead.
In regard to my posting that I said many of those who support Bush is because of their ignorance, I do not understand what is your problem, do you mean that there is no ignorant person in USA?

In my posting sad day for America, I defended every person right to fair trial and the chance to defend themselves in court independent of what they are suspect of. What do you think we should do, Close the courts and let the government arbitrarily decides who is the enemy and put them in prison for indefinite time?

If you read my posting, you will notice that even Hamilton was against this, form my original posting:

The US constitution also supports the habeas corpus and Alexander Hamilton - arguably the most conservative of the Founders - wrote in Federalist 84:

"The establishment of the writ of habeas corpus ... are perhaps greater securities to liberty and republicanism than any it [the Constitution] contains. ...[T]he practice of arbitrary imprisonments have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny.

Do you mean that Hamilton supported terrorists too?

 

FAKE
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The main thing I was talking about, which let me give you a big hint: It was the only part I quoted. See I did that to show you the part I was addressing. It was, also, the only thing you didn’t respond to. It’s like you have a word document that you cut and paste the same arguments from all the time.

The part I pointed out was you said you don’t bash America. Yet you said this:

Which seems kind of contradictory to this.

I mean do you love America because of all the tyranny?