Case Study: The Fall of SEOChat

Nice article to read. I was one of the chat members that departed. I was also one of the loyal members that commented at seomoz. I didn't have the history or the inside views that yfs or seo_AM had. In fact I got there after the forum changed hands and in the midst of what was I guess, a growing monetization of the forum. I was also an active participant in the shoutbox and one that participated in the rep thing...though didn't go as crazy on it and its growth as some others (who I like).

I agree with the sense that this is not about seochat is good, was good, or when it went downhill story. It's an interesting piece about what seems to work and doesn't work. I was unaware of the ownerships disregard of the mods, who I respected. In fact I was somewhat unaware of ownership's efforts. The attraction and appeal was in the opportunity to learn...the fact that you could pull out quality from the lack of quality and the community.

I've also spent time here...but in a much more limited way (time constraints and habit). The old chat and dp have different flavors and styles. Neither was or is good or bad...just different in my opinion.

There is enormous value to getting feedback from members/customers/clients etc. Two days ago a customer went over good and bad things about my business/service. Feedback is the lifeblood of an entity. It allows you to grow, adjust, etc. Based on the initial comments more power to Shawn in growing dp. Obviously volume of traffic speaks a lot about what works.

I'll just leave it at that. Glad I had a chance to read the blog entry.

Dave

 

Ok, so I went off that day. I really liked the place because of "who" was there. I just didn't like what went down. It was like...being spanked by your mom, and I am 37.

I will never go back

D

 

It is not the end of the world by any means Doug, great to see you here man!

 

Well, it being the leader is certainly debatable but it was respected amongst an awful lot of people. Was it better then DP at any point? There is no way to, nor is it fair to, compare them as they are apples to oranges. Shawn will be the first to say they are two different forums and you never had to choose between them.

My ramblings aren't from a DP Mod's perspective as it wasn't my aim to trash them. It was more an informational look at something that faces a lot of forums. I like to see Earl, Peter (SEO_AM), and Doug here but I also know they have settled into their own comfort zone which includes the occasional post here. But their feedback was great to read. I have always had great respect for Peter as a fellow Mod. In fact, there were people like Phoenix, Egol, Donna and more recently Rand who I always had respect for.

That to me is what makes the story interesting. It wasn't really SEOChat that "sucked". Yes there was a higher level of moderation but there are many that enjoy that structure and WMW, love it or hate it, has a dedicated member base on that principle. In this case study it was the ideas and execution of ownership. To me thats crucial as once that happened there was a breakdown in "community feel"

Its that "community feel" that forums spend years (most failing) trying to get. Look at the Buy/Sell/Trade section here and the number of people buying posts to try to fake that feeling.

Its a lesson for not only existing forums but those trying to get any level of success.

 

This is a very one sided view. It wasn't respected by a lot of people. Not the ones who have knowledge of seo. Other than a few who have made it their little community rather than serving the masses as it once was created and designed to do.

The whole place was a parody of real forums. A chat for those who like to talk about seo. You didn't learn anything unless you had enough time to waste to go thru 20 pages of butt kissing to find the post that should have followed the one starting the thread.

No, seochat was really a lame place. Maybe there were some good members, yeah ... but they were there because they couldn't face reality that the ship was sinking and were instead holding on to something from the past I guess.

I think that saying you can't compare DP and seochat is an insult to DP. This place has energy and quality. Seochat was full of wrong information without the proper self moderation where members would correct it. I have seen more misinformation than on any other forum ever. That unfortunately came from some of those you have listed as "respectable" as well.

I think that seochat was famous for its people pleasers more than anything else. Mods that said a lot without actually saying anything and not really knowledgable or help oriented enough to turn that forum into anything useful.

Nah, I'm reading your post, yfs, and it's obvious that you're biased. I can tell you that looking at it from a neutral perspective, seochat sucked hard and anyone with an open mind will be unable to disagree

 

I have never said I wasn't biased of course. It was the advise gained in SEOChat that helped me to work 100% for myself so I do admit I still have a certain respect for the community that helped me get to that point.

Could DP have done the same? Well it could now but it didn't exist when I was first posting at SEOChat. The landscape has changed dramatically in a very short time so its easy in hindsight to point out the differences.

I personally went out of my way to welcome new members and that may have been seen as ass kissing or pandering at times but I can accept that label with pride. I believed in that time (and still do) that by answering what seemed like mundane, easy and too often asked questions it brought in new blood and new ideas. I can't ever remember saying "Look it up in Google". Those that already hated the forum would point at the answering of the question by a Mod as "tired" but I don't care. That was where the potential was in the forum.

I can remember Randfish coming in and asking a lot of basic questions...Within a year he was one of the most respected members (and that extends outside of SEOChat, whatever your personal opinion may be)

I don't feel as though I have insulted DP in my comments and anyone can see my dedication to this site. I see some of your points but I think it is just a biased interpertation as mine is.

 

SEO Chat got caught in the trap of, "we are the experts, those that don't agree with us get booted out of our club" trap, they thought that they could keep out "trouble makers", sort of like CBP did at WPW ruining that forum by censorship and banning members!

Well guys here is reality.....There are thousands of other forums online, we don't need you in any way for anything, ban us, we don't care, other forums want members, we don't care if you don't, we never needed you, we never will need you, you don't have control over the internet and the free flow of information!

We don't care about the moderators club

NEWS FLASH OVER

 

Whenever you have forum where the focus is on selling stuff, there is bound to be some censorship and a little bit of dishonesty.

 

I can say there was never a club and never a conspiracy against any one member. In fact when it came to bans, not only were they rare (in the early days) but if it was anyone with more then 100 posts it came to a vote or discussion with the decision not to ban being taken 9 out of 10 times.

During the shakeup however there was massive bannings based on disagreement with management, not spamming etc.

Believe me if there was an inner circle planning members demises because they didn't agree with them, I would have included that.

Looks like Digg and Shoutwire picked up the entry:
http://digg.com/technology/Case_Study_of_the_Fall_of_SEOChat
http://www.shoutwire.com/search/seochat

 

I disagree with you, I was banned twice for no reason either time, but we will not get into it yfs1, I think those involved (the moderators) are friends of mine now and I really don't want to drag any of it up!

I speak in general terms, not targeting any moderators involved.

 

Anthony - You do know that you are typically the exception to the rule in any forum. I wouldn't base my whole view on a forum on whether or not you were banned. It a lot more complicated then that.

In your case directly I could only speak of the third time you were banned. It was merely because you registered 2 accounts and used the second to point to another forum where you posted under the title to the effect of "Going to War with SEOChat" and pretended under your new name to just happen to come across that post and asked for opinions (The posts were minutes apart)

I realize there was a history before that but in that case it was for the same thing that gets you banned anywhere...Registering multiple names.

I have no love for SEOChat but call a spade a spade and it gives more credence to your other accusations.

 

Dirty for Dirty, that was in the old Bad Company song yfs1.

I can play dirty too if forum administration and moderators want to!

 

Yep I all but stopped posting on SitePoint because of that and a whole host of changes they just sprang on us last year.

Charging to post site or template sales, charging to start a contest where I'm paying people and you want me to pay you too?

At that point they lost me and any good content I would have written for them. I mean all I ask is a sig link in return for the pages and pages of content I write and I can't even have that?

 

Yeah, I know. My only point was that it wasn't a part of a conspiracy, which was lost in your other post.

These are only my observations as a Mod. I am sure, as with any forum, there where plenty of personal vendettas that played out in an individual Moderators style of Moderation.

In fact I would be surprised if there wasn't bias present given your history. I just wanted to make the distinction there was no concensus to target anyone and I certainly wouldn't have been part of any "circle of SEOs" looking to degrade anyone.

Was there a few token Moderators who most likely had this type of attitude...Thats up to you to assess. I can only speak for myself and my experiences.

 

Like I said, I consider many of the moderators that used to be there friends now and I post on their sites today, so I really don't want to dredge up anything here but the general history, not targeting individual moderators!

This is a good lesson that can become positive for the moderators involved and for the forum community in general and that is the way we need to look at it!

I did get a nice RED rep from someone still on SEOchat that said "Stay off our board" yesterday!

I wonder why they think I would waste the time......

 

I would like to see an example of 1 good thread or 1 good thing that has come out of seochat since 1993.

 

Lol...You are right. There has not been a single good post in 13 years

Lets be a little more dramatic

Anyway here you go:
http://forums.seochat.com/showpost.php?p=111397&postcount=10

And that was only 2004

 

We had some blockbuster threads when I was there

Really, we had a lot of good people there, but way too much interference and over moderation killed the spirit of the members!

Locking threads and warning members on changing their posting style is death and they committed those forum sins, including censorship and wholesale removal of threads!

 

Gee Mike, you really *are* the voice of reason. :/

I don't and never have posted at SEO chat, but I did occasionaly read stuff over there...

Frankly I'm pleased it's gone - one less forum to browse every day.

I just feel bad for the people who called it 'home' - If dp left I'd most likely quit posting on forums alltogether.

 

Let's rephrase:

One good and informative thread. One that stayed on track long enough to be considered useful and of substance. All I see and have seen from seochat supporters is and was words, sweet words, hot air ... whatever you may want to call it. I can name a couple of things that are good about sitepoint which no other forum has ... with most forums I could do that. With seochat there isn't anything. And the fact that there were so many "experts" standing behind a community backing up false info from "one of their own" and representing a site known for publishing false articles without being proactive to make positive changes, are issues that speak for themselves and about credibility ...mainly credibility of the members who failed to make a difference when it came to providing substance.

LOL that thread was started by Shawn. Now why did he leave seochat again?