Clemency request of Tookie Williams

What about all of the extra court cases that Tookie had? How much do you think all of his Appeals, Federal habeas corpus petitions, State habeas corpus petitions, and Post-trial evidentiary hearings cost? From a financial point of view it makes a lot of sense he was executed. Think how much money they saved. He might have filed another 8 times. They should have executed him long ago.

In case you missed this earlier.

There were numerous witnesses in his court cases, some of them saying he even bragged about the killings. He had his case reviewed 8 different times by courts. Tookie and another guy had planned out an escape that involved killing guards. He thanked a killer in one of his books. One time Tookie said he had brain damage.

Tookie Williams showed no remorse for anything he had done. He's responsible for one of the largest gangs. How many people have Crip members killed?

 

I don't know for sure...but he was found guilty, has a huge rap sheet, was involved with one of the most violent gangs in US history....on and on and on.

But you're taking his word for it.

I've already wated too much time thinking and arguing about this. It's fucking pointless.

I'll see you around in other threads, Yo-Yo.

 

Why should he not be killed? Is it because he's anti-gangs now? So am I. Tookie and I have had about the same amount of success stoping gang violence.

 

Lets see if you can follow:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7#From DPIC

In case you missed it, his death penalty case costed much more than if he had been sentenced to life in prison.

Those witnesses were gang members, criminals, and themselves involved in the cases. They ONLY TESTIFIED IN EXCHANGE for immunity themselves. One witness facing murder and rape charges was GIVEN IMMUNITY to testify. There's reports that prison gaurds GAVE THE WITNESSES INFORMATION on the case to testify with.

It's not rocket science to figure out that people will lie under oath to save their own ass

The same courts and justice system that sentenced to death more than 100 proven innocent people...

Really? http://tookie.com/apology.html

Please educate yourself on a subject before you talk about it.

 

Exactly the reason that death penalty cases should not take decades to come to fruition. Why should a condemned person be allowed to suck up resources for over 20 years while law-abiding citizens suffer? I'm not taking a "kill 'em all" attitude, but if the dealth penalty is to be a deterrant, then exercise it and do so with post haste ... lose today, appeal in a month, lose appeal, set a date and stick to it with the evidence and juries have spoken.

 

For one, every person should have a good amount of time to appeal and prove their innocence.

http://innocenceproject.org/

If we killed them right away, 122 innocent people that have been convicted in court and sentenced to death would have been executed. Is money worth more than those 122 innocent peoples lives?

And I'm quite sure, it would cost less money to hold prisoners for life, than to execute them. If a death penalty case costs $2 million more than a regular case, I highly doubt we spend $2 million feeding and prisoning each person.

 

I sure hope you can't breed. That's all we need is more idiots running around.

The reason why it costs more for capital murder is because killers keep filling more and more appeals. If we’d just put a bullet in their head from the start we’d save a ton of money.

If you go back and reread, or have some one read my statement to you, again you’ll see that I was complaining about all the appeals he filed. I was arguing for killing him long before he filed all of them.

That’s a pretty half assed apology. Sorry for being a gangster. Last time I checked an apology needed to be specific. Even kids know this. If a kid said “sorry for doing something bad” I wouldn’t call that an apology. However if a kid said “sorry I broke your window” then that’s a start. The apology still wouldn’t excuse him from punishment or repercussions.

 

By holding them for life you put prison guards at risk, if he's in for life there is no motivation to behave. You say 122 innocent people have been saved but I'm sure the number of people killed by released criminals is a lot higher.

No system is going to be perfect, but the overall safety of the population has to be the priority.

 

I could say the same about 90% of the state of Texas and anyone who likes George Bush

Once again, babbling without knowing anything. Nearly all the extra costs of a death penalty cases (the millions of dollars part) is from the pre-trial information gathering and investigation. The other high priced area is the extra length trial an average death pentaly case has over a non-death penalty case.

Do you even know how much an appeal costs

Once again, you fail to read. Let me quote myself:

Are you saying that money is more important than those 122 innocent lives?

EDIT:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/cost.html

Just for you hodgy

 

It’s funny how you have to keep going back editing your posts and they’re still idiotic.

http://www.answers.com/topic/capital-punishment

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=cost

Tookie's case was a high profile one so it recieved even more attention and appeals. So think about those extra costs.

So do you know how much appeals cost?



IF HE DIES. HE DIES.

I've wasted too much time in this thread.

Edit: And don't call me hodgy. It makes you sound like a fag.

 

Umm.. I think your own quote just went against what you say

So if I'm reading this right, and I could be wrong, it says the state of CA could save $90 mil a year by not executing people (which it's only executed 12 now total since the 70's) AND $78 million (87%) of that has nothing to do with appeals?

So you argue, instead of not executing people, we should just deny their right to appeal and keep spending millions of dollars to execute?


2005 - 1976 = 29 years
$90 mil/yr x 29 = $2.6 Billion

So the state of CA alone could have saved itself $2.6 billion if the 90 mil/year figure is accurate. I'm sure you could find a better way to spend that money? $90 million a year to execute 12 people over 29 years... is it really worth it?

 

Exactly. We need to kill people faster and cheaper. I'm glad we're finally on the same page.

 

No arguements, no court rules, no majority, educated or uneducated can ever justify capital punishment.

For all the supporters of capital punishment - you need to set your priorities right. You argue on revenge not punishment, you act revenge not punishment, you preach revenge not punishment and/or rehabilitation.
Is that human centered by law? - think about it - This kind of arguements show how helpless America is in fighting crime. Shouldn't the state be above that?

Someone said
"I'm for capital punishment, because the next time he tries again he will remember"

"Eye for Eye and Tooth for Tooth" makes blind and toothless

 

"A Kid's Review
I'm 8 years old, my name is Mariana and I live in Chicago. I hate street gangs. I have an uncle who joined a gang when he was young, and he always tells us stories sbout it and how its the biggest mistake for a young person to join a gang. He remembers when he was 19 and watched a friend beat up a old man. He thought it was funny at the time, but later felt real bad about it, and now gives money to the homeless shelter. I will never join a gang. To the San Diego youth officer that says that Mr. Williams books are boring to kids? You say you have better books for us to read, and that we should not be talked down to, but sorry, yes we do need strait talk not sweet talk. And the books are boring for you probly because your not a kid. Do you play with GI Joe, and do you know how it feels to be a leader when you are 19 years old? I do, and im not even 9 yet. Why? because someone who DOES know told me. The books will help. I would like to meet the author one day, and bring him to my friends houses so he can tell them in person. That would make a kid feel important. I don't care that he was a gang member. You can't change the past, but you can change the future."

 

The mighty Roman Empire fell and one day so will America. The down fall will be all the bleeding hearts, it has already begun.

Sad thing for me is once America goes, Canada will be right behind.

 

yo-yo

I need your address please. I am writing a letter to Actor (Gov) Terminator and GWB asking that Charles Manson's sentence be commuted and he be given immediate parole into your custody for rehabilitation ... you can use him as a case study and keep us posted - if you're alive after 24 hours.

 

Im not a believer in the bible, god or anything but I think some passages of the bible are of great interest in respect of a subject like this....

e.g

Leviticus 24:19-20 -- Anyone who maims another shall suffer the same injury in return: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; the injury inflicted is the injury to be suffered.


Matthew 5:21-22 -- You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, "You shall not murder"; and "whoever murders shall be liable to judgement." But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgement; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, "You fool," you will be liable to the hell of fire.


2 very good points made in those sections which ring true even today, I would have to say I agree with the death penalty if the convicted does not renouce or try to change his ways or help others to not do the same thing. Tookie was trying to do just that and a life in prison writing and helping others is more of a lesson to everyone than ending his life and losing what use he still had...

With that in mind...

Romans 12:17-19, 21 -- Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."


As I said I am not a christian and I have no intention to be but for those who are and arn't those passages open up a lot of thought material...

 

That one applies to matters of the heart as well...

 

Great!!! Amen - Halleluya!!! - You got it - I enjoy with you -
Leviticus - is old testament and things have changed then in the New Testament though

!!!You made my day!!!

Now: Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth makes blind and toothless

 

Charles Manson "never killed nobody". Well, not according to him anyway. He is actually eligible for parole but has a hard time convincing the parole board he isn't ready to go homicidal the moment he gets out of jail should they find in his favour.