Does God exist?

@Obamanation don't bother arguing with idiots. He's uneducated on the subject, argues using logical fallacies, and outright lies. He's an ignorant nutjob, just let it go. You'd make more progress arguing with a wall. At least a wall is more of an intellectual than this guy.

There's a direct correlation with belief in god and intelligence and for good reason. Just take pride in the fact that the bible belt is one of the poorest and illiterate parts of the U.S and move on.

 

What an intelligent sounding guy you are lmao

 

The saddest thing about arguing with people like you is you think you're getting over on the person you're arguing with. I've taken college level biology classes, I've watched and read a ton of stuff on evolution, and I have a reasonable idea of how it works. You on the other hand have read your churches anti-intellectual pamphlets and bought into your religious dogma hook line and sinker and think you're a fucking scientist. Oh and I've also taken enough logic, speech, and philosophy classes to know that you're a walking talking logical fallacy.

 

It's so nice knowing truth is safeguarded by intelligent folks like you

BTW I haven't been in a church in years...

 

Fair enough. For what its worth, I tend to agree with most of your views on politics and foreign policy. I can appreciate any conversation on this topic that doesn't use "magic" books written by goat herders, as scientific reference material.

 

It seems fairly obvious I'm not going to convince him of anything, but do I need to? I doubt his belief on such subjects has any bearing on his financial well being, and perhaps it has a positive effect on his emotional well being. Not sure why I need to insult him for it, unless he is going to try and convert me, or try and get the government to convert me for him.

There is a direct correlation between intelligence and race too (The Bell Curve is a very interesting read), which goes to show you how good those studies about the intelligence of a population are. Using standardized test scores and college entrance exams as a measure of such things has a heavy bias against the poor.

The deep south still suffers from the effects of a war 150 years ago. It would be nice if we could one day put it past us.

 

> Not sure why I need to insult him for it, unless he is going to try and convert me, or try and get the government to convert me for him.

I absolutely can not stand people who don't believe in evolution. You can believe in all the stories you want, but when you start purposely perpetuating ignorance in an attempt to further your own religious agenda, it's just disgusting to me. Humanity would be so much further along if it weren't for religious bullshit. Only a few hundred years ago religious whack jobs would execute scientists who they disagreed with. Now they just denounce them and attempt to spread their religious dogma through other means. It's just a sad state of affairs. Like a plague of stupidity.

> There is a direct correlation between intelligence and race too

That's because minorities are often poorer and don't have the money and family structure needed to successfully raise well educated individuals.

 

If only you could hear how you sound. "I can't stand people who don't believe in evolution". That means you hate about 75% of the world. And all this talk about people who believe in God being stupid, poor rednecks and all; right now I'd say you've done an awesome job making yourself sound like a complete and utter idiot. Keep talking and let's see just how stupid you can make yourself sound.

And as for those stereotypes, I don't live in the Bible Belt, I'm not a Christian, I'm far from stupid (even have a Master Degree, if you can believe that! lol) and since I make about $42k a year on my job and another $5k - $20k a year on freelance jobs, I'd say I'm not poor either.

 

Better to hate a majority than a minority? That analogy doesn't quite fit, because most of the illegal immigrants crossing our borders are devout, abortion opposing, bible thumping Christians. Of course if you targeted that group with a phrase like, "I can't stand illegal immigrants", you get called a hater and a racist. There isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to it.

Funny story. My sister came down from Berkeley last week, and as you can imagine, she is a devout Democrat. Over brunch, we got to talking about politics and I mentioned in front of her and another "progressive" family member that I am a Tea Party supporter. It felt much like what I can imagine it might have for a a gay person in the deep south in the 1970s to come out of the closet. The conversation ended and the table was silent for some time before children and other matters broke up the awkwardness.

One thing about the left. Their prejudices run deep, and they have absolutely no concern over expressing their dislike (can we call it hate?) in polite company. In my opinion, there are very few liberals left in the Democratic party, just a lot of tyranny loving progressives.

 

> It felt much like what I can imagine it might have for a a gay person in the deep south in the 1970s to come out of the closet.

I think you meant 2014, not 1970.

>That means you hate about 75% of the world.

Good job making shit up. More people in developed nations believe in evolution than your creationist fairy tale bullshit. Hell, this study included 3rd world countries and highly religious places like Saudia Arabia and evolutionists still far outnumbered creationists. Imagine if you factor in UK and other European countries where atheists make up 40% of the population.

Source: http://ncse.com/news/2011/04/polling-creationism-evolution-around-world-006634

Also something worth noting:

Gee what a surprise, well educated and wealthy people don't believe in fairy tales.

Oh and 42k with a masters degree? Lol that's completely pathetic! Let me guess, you majored in religious studies to reinforce your fairy tale view of the world?

 

The term "about" should have been a pretty good indicator I was "guesstimating" here.

If you believe the results of a poll are in any way indicative of real-world statistics, you're pretty gullible. Polls never have been nor ever will be a reflection of anything except the views of those polled.

Actually, I have a degree in Business Administration in Marketing. And if you think 42k (plus an additional 10 or 20k on the side) with a Master Degree is bad, you should check out pay scales for librarians; most require a Master Degree and only make around 40k a year. But that's neither here nor there because I'm content doing what I do. I have a job I really enjoy and I'm far from poor. Plus, unlike you, I fully enjoy my life and don't feel the need to be an ass to make myself feel better.

Maybe if you'd get a life instead of trying to ride my nuts, you wouldn't be such a pathetic loser...

 

Perhaps in Owlsey County, but that would be like saying Compton is representative of California. New Orleans, and most major southern cities are far more liberal on this issue than the Democrats who still use stereotypes like the one you just used.

Now that is curious, especially considering the many polls, right here in the US that tell exactly the opposite tale.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/23/evolution-god_n_3640658.html
"According to a YouGov poll, only 21% of Americans believe that human beings evolved without the involvement of God,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/30/evolution-survey_n_4519441.html
"While six-in-ten Americans said they believed that “humans and other living things have evolved over time" and about half of them said processes such as natural selection -- not God -- that led to evolution,"

One has to scratch their head when trying to reconcile the findings of your IPSOS poll with every other poll. As usual, the devil is in the details:
"Three in ten (28%) global citizens refer to themselves as “creationists and believe that human beings were in fact created by a spiritual force such as the God they believe in and do not believe that the origin of man came from evolving from other species such as apes”

If you throw out evolutionary creationists, who make up over half of those believing in Evolution in the US, and factor in for China, with 20% of the world's population living in a country where religion is outlawed, you can make your poll read like the whole world suddenly embraced evolution. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ridiculing someone based on how much they earn? Not very classy. Some might even call it hateful.

 

> If you believe the results of a poll are in any way indicative of real-world statistics, you're pretty gullible. Polls never have been nor ever will be a reflection of anything except the views of those polled.

I find it really sad that you made it all the way through a masters degree without taking a statistics class. Polls are very indicative of real world opinions if done properly. Polling is down to an exact science actually, but I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that. Hell, I find it sad you could even get a masters degree and not even take basic biology classes. Where did you attend, online university of pheonix or something? You can officially call yourself a "doctor" yet think the earth is 6000 years old and decent from adam and eve lol. No wonder the U.S is behind all other countries in education.

> "While six-in-ten Americans said they believed that “humans and other living things have evolved over time" and about half of them said processes such as natural selection -- not God -- that led to evolution,"

Really? 6 in 10 sounds like majority to me.

Here. Find me ONE developed nation in the entire world thats populace believes in creationism vs evolution. Just one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#Europe

Germany: 12% creationists
Switzerland: 30%
UK: 16%
South Korea: 36%
Brazil 31%

 

The relevant portion of that quote.

"half of them said processes such as natural selection -- not God -- that led to evolution"​

Now you just need to work out what half of six is.

Comparisons between ourselves and Northern Europe are fair. They are mostly first world nations, and equally educated, if not as wealthy. They are also less than 10% of the world's population. Outside of Northern Europe and communist China, one is forced to bend over backwards to make the numbers fit.

The 31% stat you quoted for Brazil, for instance, was young earth creationist. Those are people who believe the earth is less than 10000 years old. That stat in the US is 42%, with another 31% saying God guided evolution along (Intelligent Design). Produce the Intelligent Design number for Brazil and you will once again find the believers in evolution without a magic man in the sky lending a hand, to be a minority.

If you really want to get some interesting numbers, look at Africa, the Middle East, India, and much of the rest of Asia. With so many poor and uneducated people, pollsters struggle to find enough people who have even heard of evolution and Charles Darwin. Its sad, border lining on pathetic, to see sites like NCSE happily quoting stats from those countries which poll only the people in the country who know who Darwin is, as if they represent the other 99% who live in mud huts. One could almost call it spreading stupidity, which is pretty stunning for a site dedicated to the support of science.

 

....why would it at ALL be relevant to hear what uneducated people living in huts think of the origin of species? It's like asking their opinion on nuclear physics, who cares.

> That stat in the US is 42%, with another 31% saying God guided evolution along (Intelligent Design)

Ok so we agree, the majority of the U.S believes in evolution, coinciding with every other developed and educated nation.

 

You were the one who made the claim that "3rd world countries and highly religious places like Saudia Arabia and evolutionists still far outnumbered creationists.". I was simply debunking it.

Actually, no, I don't agree that those who believe in Intelligent Design share my beliefs on evolution. Neither does Gallup. Neither does any science class taught in any credible school in this country.

 

> You were the one who made the claim that "3rd world countries and highly religious places like Saudia Arabia and evolutionists still far outnumbered creationists.". I was simply debunking it.

I said the complete opposite of that. I said in this poll the majority of people believe in evolution, even when you factor in certain 3rd world countries LIKE Saudia Arabia and Indonesia. In all of my posts I was only arguing for developed countries. Either way I'm definitely done with this pointless thread.

 

I went to Texas A&M... And why would I have to take a biology class for a business degree? That makes about as much sense as taking a class in Chinese to get a cooking degree...

And there is absolutely nothing "exact" about polling. Take a hundred random people and ask them their opinion and you have a poll. Polls have been misused by people with agendas to prove what would otherwise be false many many times throughout history.

Check out http://www.akdart.com/polls.html
(Polls are accurate, yeah right! lmao)

Out of 1,000 people polled, 98.987% do not believe that Rub3X really exists.

 

> And why would I have to take a biology class for a business degree? That makes about as much sense as taking a class in Chinese to get a cooking degree...

To prevent the extreme ignorance that you are currently displaying. For the same reason you need to take math, english, philosophy, and history classes. To get a well rounded education and not sound like a complete moron.

If you have never taken a statistics class, which it's obvious you have not, you'd know that a poll that's correctly randomized and contains a sample size of at least 1,000 people is nearly completely accurate. The only reason a poll would be biased is if the people were choosen in a non random fashion such as calling only land lines, or if the poll's question was biased to begin with. Sadly, it seems you quite literally know jack shit about sociology, science, or anything else for that matter.

Instead of pasting a link to a completely random website made in 1995 by some right wing nut job, how about you visit Gallup's website and read how they get their polling data and compare it to Wikipedia's correct methods for polling.

 

The only one sounding like a "moron" is you. And as for statistics, it's more than apparent you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

If Gallup polls are so accurate, why couldn't it get the 2012 election right?

Anyway, I'm finished with this idiotic argument. I'm removing it from my watched threads and you can have it...