Freaking Hate Clients

Some coward gave me a bad rep for this post. Not even guts enough for a comment. I notice that the same person gave Wordsmith a bad rep for his post here - also no comment. Hmmmm, should I try to intuit who did this and give this person back a bad rep? Or should I fling bad reps in all directions like some crazies do here?

Whoever is doing this needs to realize that I don't rely on a sig line or business from DP as I am a member of many other forums that either do not have "reps" or do not allow indiscriminate bad reps being given without a reason and without the one who gives the rep being named.

And if other members who like me give me a good rep, it will all balance out.

 

Just ignore it Amberstar....I've gotten red reps for the silliest things, and most of the time people DON'T say who they are. Just move on and do what you do.

 

My thoughts too, are to ignore it. Someone is just trying to "yank your chain."

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan

 

yeah its best to laugh at the reps

to answer the question you guys asked about making money online

you most likely have all the skills to create and promote websites, just create and promote your own websites.

You can make money from adsense, affilate programs , etc

You can also contact business and work with them directly, like on commission basis

if you don't have the motivation to work on stuff without getting paid up front, then I have no pity for you, go get a job.

 

Thanks for the supportive responses. Sometimes my red-haired Scorpio self over-reacts to trivial situations.

 

Don't ya just love being a Water sign??? I can relate.

 

We water signs are soooo intense. But then again, it's not only the Sun sign but the position of your other planets that make up the whole picture.

 

Yeah, ignore the rep - people who matter will still like you, and listen to your posts even if you do go red.

"if you don't have the motivation to work on stuff without getting paid up front, then I have no pity for you, go get a job."

It's not the working on stuff without payment up front that bugs me - it's working on stuff and not getting the payment down back.

 

I am not talking about working for people without being paid up front, I am talking about trying to create your own things for yourself.

 

Um, writing stuff for money is a job.

Also, it's entirely possible that some people do better working for other people than they do creating their own things for themselves.

And I really don't care if you have pity for me or not.

 

YOU GET to Grocery shop:O...Lucky dog

 

Back to the original topic...

I started a job in October last year, went through 5 design variations till the client approved. At the time she said things like 'gorgeous', 'perfect' and 'no more changes'. So, I made the pages, wrote the text, formatted photos, seo'd, etc. and got the site to about 80% completion.

Well guess what. She had some personal or business crisis and fled the planet then turned up again a wee while ago. She asked if we could get going again on the project but when we met it to talk about it, what she wanted was a whole new design based on a brochure she had had printed in the meantime. (While she didn't have any money to pay me, I might add!)

Not that she wanted to pay for a redesign. Oh no, this was in order to get the balance of money she has owed me since last year.

When I said no, sorry not interested, she went nuclear and asked for the initial deposit back.

Sigh.

 

Maybe she just meant you personally.

Clients like you just described suck big hairy....we interupt this thread to bring you happy text

 

Haha, doubt it. Thing that stings the most is that five minutes before she was talking going on about getting together and doing this, doing that. Things didn't go her way and the next minute I've got Countess Dracula on my hands. Scary.

 

Just a few more happy text to help

 

I have a client whos such a pain in the ass, that when I see an email from her in my inbox, first I cringe from fear of stupidity causing my brain to implode as it attempts to digest the sociopathic diatribe shes gotten herself on for the day; and then I seem amazed that such a simpleton can muster up the molecules to work in unison to type the frickin email in the first place.

I can just summarize this by a few key phrases

Macintosh Classic II
Dial-up (28.8 modem)
AOL (and will only view any webpage with their cutting edge browser)
In the middle of the woods in Oregon, still stuck in the 80's business wise
Crazy animal lover ( and you can interpert that anyway you choose LOL)

but the best part is that she will pay for her hosting and any other work only by check since she times-out on the paypal sign up page. She bugged me for 2 weeks to take all the pictures on the website and flip them to look at the text on the page, so it looks like the dogs are reading it. HELLOOO..... DOGS DONT READ!!

 

A pain the a** can pay well.

A business contacted me about the trouble they were having with their current webmaster. They forwarded me all of the emails that had been exchanged for the prior six months.

The business had a travel related website. The two owners could not agree on the picture of the airplane that was going to go on the main page of the website, and the poor web developer had agreed to find them a picture they could use without charging them for his time. Almost 8 hours of this guy searching and the owners dis-agreeing on the six different pictures the webmaster found.

This website was started 8 mos. before they contacted me.

You see what was happening, is that both owners were sending contradicting orders to the web developer. The web developer would make changes on one owners request, and the second owner would order something else done.

Then I get the email: Can you help us find a picture of an airplane?

I wrote back and said, "Yes!"

And then preceded to tell them that every hour spent on the computer on their behalf was billable, whether it was answering email or searching for images. If they didn't want to pay for my time, then I wouldn't be able to work for them because I had other clients who were willing to pay for my time. I run a business. I don't make any money if I don't have any billable time at the end of the day.

Over the course of the next month they wracked up $1200 in charges. They paid me for my time, and still weren't any farther in getting their website built. But they ignored the guidelines I sent them on how to get the most effective use out of their time working with me.

Before I started working with them, they sent me a valid credit card number. They understood they had to pay for every hour I sat in front of the computer on their behalf.

Most of the $1200 charge was working as a liaison between the two partners, who couldn't agree on anything. I think I only FTP'ed into the site once. If they couldn't agree on anything, that wasn't my problem. If they wanted to drag me into it... then they had to pay for my time.

They paid up... but they weren't very happy about it. So I sent them a letter informing them I wouldn't be able to work for them any more and suggested (very diplomatically, of course) that they contact two of my competitors who might be able to manage their needs. ;-)

I send every prospect a guideline on how to best make use of my time. Here are two examples of two very similar websites.

One client sent me a 20 page website, with a little custom Perl scripting needed. Each page was sent in a word doc with an overview of the entire website.

Another client sent me a 20 page website. There wasn't any overview, no plan and changes to the copy he sent were emailed everyday for one month -- no planning!

One site cost $900 the other cost $6800.

One would think that for $6000 difference between two similar sites that it might be to the clients advantage to read the guidelines. But that's their choice.

So for clients who are a pain in the a** I think it is up to us how we will meet these challenges. Compare this to a contractor you have hired to build you a Gazebo. After it has been built in a rectangular shape, and THEN you tell him he will have to re-build it because you want it octagonal, what are your chance he will do this for free?

Regards,
Steve MacLellan

 

Steve,

I really do agree with you. You've got it all down pat. But I am a big girl's blouse when it comes to talking about money and I make the mistake over and over that I want these people to like me. I want to be appreciated. I want to be loved. God help me.I don't know who stole my Barbie when I was growing up but I can't help but want to be friends with my clients. I realise that this is a problem and I think I need a front man. My old man is scary looking so he might do but he's a wuss under all the bristling eyebrows so I'd probably end up doing more for less than I am doing now.

I'd really love to see your guidelines Steve. If you are comfortable with that, would you PM me an idea of what they say?

 

Hi e10,

The general guidelines I send to potential clients in an email says to send an overview of the complete project. In the overview it should have a list of key elements that need to be built into a template for their site. These are things like a signup form or links that need to be on every page. And I ask them to describe any special functions the website will need to do.

I also ask them to let me know if the navigation system built into the site will be a complete system, or if they will want to expand on it in the future.

(Note: Many clients have you build a website, and once finished, only send edits once in a while... and this is just additions or modification to existing pages. Other clients send new material to add monthly, so you need to know this before-hand so you can plan for it).

Then I ask them to send the content for each page in its own Microsoft Word document. I tell them I will use the same text decoration in the html pages as in the Word docs, and the headlines and sub-heads will be the same. I also ask them to make sure these documents are in finished format and that they have been spell checked and proofread.

If they have any special images that need to be added to their site like a logo, or anything else, I ask them to send it along.

Then I ask if they will be selling something, do they need a shopping cart installed, merchant account or do they already have a service they are using. You know, like 1shoppingcart, iTransact, Authorizenet, etc...

That pretty well covers the basic stuff.

If they email me back and say they need this or that (like an image of an airplane) and if I could find it for them, it would be at this time when I tell them yes, but every hour I sit in front of the computer on their behalf is billable to them and suggest it would be a good idea for them to find someone else to find this for them that doesn't charge as much per hour as me. It is about this time where it hits home, the value I place on my time. LOL

You see, my free time is worth as much as my working time. It can be bought for those who want to pay the price, but if I am having a slow day, I can spend it doing work for myself, or away from the computer enjoying time with friends and family.

There is the odd time, where a client will contact you who is just to lazy to do his or her own research. For example... I had one prospect who emailed me and asked if I could build him a "dating site." I said, "Of course."

I asked him if he had looked at any script packages that are already available such as the ones that can be found here:
http://hotscripts.com/search/5909303.html

He wrote back and said, no he hadn't. He asked me if it would be OK just to let me know what he wanted the site to do and if I could build it from scratch. How much could I do it for?

You see where this is going. He doesn't want to waste HIS time, but he doesn't mind wasting MINE.

So I went over to hotscripts again, looked at the cost of a few packages. You understand that the authors of these scripts plan to make their money back after X number of script packages are sold. To write a custom program, the client would need to pay all of the development costs upfront, because you are writing it for him, and not for resale.

So you find one worth $500. Multiple that by 10 and then add another $1000 for your trouble and then email the potential client back that the custom script will cost around $6,000, but then to add the supporting webpages and e-commerce functions will run him another $3,000.

Then comes the fun part where I told him because he was not an existing client, and had not built a credit history with me, he would be required to pay half down. I accept Visa and Mastercard or International money orders, and which method would he prefer?

By the time they get this email, they will realize you're quite serious about what you do for a living. Some of them -- you'll never hear from again. Others will do their own research and start looking for something they would like you to install, and I've had others who have paid me to research various software packages based on criteria and thought that they have put into the project. In case you haven't guessed, this is what passes for a consulting fee, and can be applied to any task that isn't programming, but requires a substantial amount of your time.

And yes, it IS important that a potential client likes you. But it is important that they respect you too, and one way to ensure this is by asking for a commitment from them. You can always give them examples of how people just like them have had their projects successfully managed by your business by explaining features of customer websites in your portfolio that aren't evident to the casual observer. This can help satisfy them that you are indeed capable of taking on their project and is considered one of the universal principles of influence.

If someone is serious about having you build a website for them, then there is a good chance they see you as some sort of authority on the subject. If they understand you are knowledgeable and have some credibility, they are far less likely to ask you to waste your time. For those that do, ask for a monetary commitment. They will either cough it up or go away. Either way, it is a win/win situation for you. ;-)

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan

 

Firstly, this thread is a great read, and I'm pretty much like e10 that when someone comes to me and says 'Can you give me a free trial' I buckle under the pressure and say 'Yes, of course'

I then sit down and wonder why my competitions are making a fortune, and I'm struggling to make ends meet. Thinking about it as a business, if I telephoned my local newspaper and said 'Can you advertise my villa for free?' they would laugh - in fact no one in their right mind would ask for free advertising, but for some reason people think that because your anonline business, and there are thousands of competitors out there that entitles them to free advertising.

Darren