How to deal with Fools? Or am I a fool?

Hello DPers,

Now from last 2 years I am in a great problem.

Let me explain the situations. I am a PHP and MySQL developer.

So whenever someone wants to build a site they contact me.

I ask what kind of website they want?
Some answers:
1) I don't know.
2) How would I know. Its your duty to think about it.
3) If I knew what kind of site I want then I would have built it myself.

So I ask what kind of color theme they want?
1) Don't know.
2) Who cares.
3) Doesn it realy matters.
4) Red. (Mark this one)

Then I ask what kind of company they have.
1) We will send you some leaflets. (After me making 100 of phone calls to them)


Now when I finish the site then again comes the customer shouting on top of his voice.

1) I don't like Red color.
2) Why isn't this site ready? (How it can be when I don't know what to write in his about us section of the company)
3) Can the menu be this or that?
4) Can we start it again?
5) Is this website?
6) Oh so this is called website. right.




So now my questionis how to deal with this kind of guys.

It seems like I am a worker. The guy tells me to dig a hole at one place. then after toiling hard when I dig it he says me to fill it up again. And orders me to come back someday and dig another hole at someplace else but right now they are not looking to dig any holes in the ground. But then what happends to my effort that I have put in it? the hole is dug and filled. So it is nothing to him but My work? My time? My headaches, which I get dealing with this kind of people???


Please guide me. I am out of my mind.

 

Before you begin a project, I would just keep asking your client the questions you listed above until you get all the information you need. Explain to them that you need to know all the answers before you can begin the project.

 

Yeah they asnwer it nicely but then they just say "Ummm... Red is not looking so good. Please change it to blue."

Now blue is not simple blue you all know. I again have to design the PSD again have to code the CSS at some places. etc etc.

And even if this red and blue thing is solved. then comes can we make the menu table a bit wider???
And how much wider? Who knows. Making it bit wider destroys all alignments and I again have to code 100 of pages to fit the new width settings.

 

How many clients have you had this experience with?

 

Till now I have dealt with atleast 200 of them. And out of which 180 were like this.

Sometimes I even have to get drunk. And I say bad words to myself. Bcoz I want to do business. I want to earn and be polite with clients. But they misuse my politeness and rip me off.

 

Is the buyer is being too vague and doesn't know what he's talking about you should just do the job at your descretion and he will have no right to complain after since he didn't tell you the specifics.

 

I have example for every kind of situation.

EX: One Lady ordered one website for her company. I asked her to send me the info about her company so that I can decide the content. No info for two months and then she emailed me the info. With 1000 typos. And after just 5 hours she calls me home that "She went to the site and it is still showing under construction." She also got angry on me and aked me "Do You want to work or not?"

But I kept my cool. And told her please give me some time I will update it.

I worked fast and hard all the night. And in morning she said she don't want this site. "She wants a better one" Now she don't know herslef what a better one is. "I asked for an example site" and she said no we don't want to copy other sites.

Till now I haven't been paid a penny.

So after this bumping of my head in walls I finaly gave it up and stopped recieveing the calls.

Now she haven't paid me anything but says she will sue me. As I wasted her time.

NOW should I go to her house and break some bones. Or am I over reacting?

 

How did you request payment?

 

I didn't requested the payments. Thought I would collect it after finishing the job.

 

It's a good idea to find a way (such as PayPal) to send invoices to your clients to help avoid a situation such as this

 

the problem is most customer are not designer and donno what 's work

so i pitch my idea with pharse like "This is how professional website should look" or "this attract user accroding to different survey". You have to give her the impression like "listen to me, this is going to work for you and i know more than you do"

and use program like Visio to draw the layout and show her how it look before any coding.

also, a 50% upfront payment is reasonable

 

This is one of the reasons why my dream to become a web designer is slowly fading....it's just a big head f--k. Building a website for a client would take 1 week min if you are working by yourself. It may take 2 days or so to actually build it but most clients would make things more difficult than it should be.

I want to make a living on the internet so I dont have to waste my life working a 9-5 job, but being a web designer would probably be just as bad. Of course I dont know that for sure so maybe you nice web designers could haveyour say?

 

Hey Nick,

I too wanted to become a web designer, but didn't because of jerks that you describe.

Now the reason they are being like this is because, as mentioned, they don't know how hard it is to set things up.

Here's what I suggest:

1)Get a laywer and create a bullet-proof contract. Include sections that if they don't provide enough information about the company then the deal is off. Also I would suggest getting paid in installments so that you at least get some money.

2) When you are with a client, meet with them and ask them every question possible:

What do you envision the site looking like?
What color do you want this section to be? Blue. Okay what shade? Navy Blue, Or Light Blue.
What does your company do?

If they don't give you information about their company, tell them you can't continue working on the project until you get some information.

If they want you to type words up for them, then that will cost them extra (you are a web designer not a writer, but you can write for $$$).

Once you get as MUCH info as possible, create a series of meetings down the road. That way you don't finish the project and they yell at you, which you then get REALLY pissed because you did so much work, that you now have to re-do it.

So, ideally you want to meet in stages until its done. And if there are problems for them or for you, you can talk to them face-to-face.

Remember Time = $$$ so don't waste it. If you gotta talk to these guys until they are blue in the face. Do it. At least you are both on the same page.

Anyway that's a little something I used to think of when I wanted to be a designer. I'm not a lawyer.

Skinny

 

First thing I do is ask questions like you did. Then I work up a proposal based on that. If they were very vague I base it on what I recommend they do.

This proposal tells them what I will do and what I expect from them. I usually give one mock up with three revisions. The mock up is done as a graphic and they must sign off on it before I turn it into HTML/css. If they want to change anything after that, it costs extra. If they can't get their idea down after three revisions it costs extra.

I tell them when I expect materials from them and that it must be in electronic format. I tell them that I do not fix typos etc. I just copy and paste their text. If they need me to fix it later, it costs extra.

I tell them how long the turn around time is if they get their materials to me on time. If they are late, they go to the bottom of the client list and I get to it when I get to it.

I charge 1/3 of the estimated cost up front. Another third after the mock up is approved and the final payment BEFORE I put the site on their hosting.

If they don't pay on time, work stops.

If they don't get their materials to me for a really long time, the project is put on hold and falls out of the queue. They may have to pay a fee to get work started again depending on how busy I am.

I get them to sign a contract with all this stuff and more in it.

Works pretty well. Sure you still get the clients that don't read, but it helps a lot.

Jennifer

 

Reminds me of the idiots I'm dealing with and I'm not even doing web design. I've learned that no matter what you do, you will always have these idots. You can easy the pain, but they won't go away. If this kind of work drives you nuts, consider something less stressful. Trust me, all this stress is not good for your health in the long run and you only live once.

 

idk if they are stupid, they just have no idea what is involved in the creation of a website, or anything to do with the computer/internet. They see so many website that they assume web designers can just pump these out and make them look professional and have flash and so on. The truth is they don't have the slightest idea of what is actually involved in setting up something like this.

Most people out there have no idea about any of this, so if you are a web designer you have no choice but to take clients and make money. Your clients will not know anything about the topic which is why they have hired you in the first place.

 

These customers are nuts, just because they click on yahoo.com and it's so beautiful, they expect that these sites dropped off from the sky.

You could do what consulting world calls it - a "Requirement Checklist"
Some kind of form that they have to fill and sign on with critical information.
i.e. content layout,fonts, images, contact details required,

Make a few templates, that those guys can choose, put them online
Only make some areas 'configurable' i.e. the header, the left logo, the navigation bar and of course the content. Everything else must stay.

Open ended questions - i.e. what kind of website...I know of CEOs who cannot answer that sort of question.
They'll say - "I want a website to attract buyers".....
You say "FLASH ? Forum-based", shopping carts, news site, blog site..

They say, "I don't care, just attract people...."

Sorry, that's the way it is...

 

It seems like you have almost answered your own questions. Once you get a good feel for their (lack of) knowledge, you need to do a certain amount of education about what you can do for them and what you need from them to do your job.

A good idea would be to prepare a document of specific things you need from them before you will begin work on the website. Then let them know when they can expect to see a first draft of the website.

Why bother doing all the work of html and css before you even have a final site design approved? Do it all in photoshop and then you'll only have to code the final approved design.

 

easy dont deal with them lol its not worth the time nor money hahahah

or another way like stated...have a face to face meeting with your clent provide them with a sheet stating all the various points you need....work over it with them...use example and other stuff...

 

Just turn down the flaky clients, it sounds like you are wasting lots of time chasing down payments and fixing things a million times. Take less customers but at least it will be the ones that pay and you will live a lot longer without the stress.