McDar Experiment

NEW PAGE UPDATE:

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]

_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's (no way of telling which are accounted for)

 

Links are

http://www.ski-france-ok.com/
http://www.ski-france-ok.com/skijobs.htm
http://www.ski-france-ok.com/skifrokjobsframe.htm

 

Thank you, Foxy!

I will add the search ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping bags ) to tomorrows update post.

I have just preformed the search and it currently returns zero results, as expected.

Caryl

 

I'll add a PR5 Link from www.wrestling-connection.com if this is still being done.

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#29 allinanchor:#15 - 04/20/2004 [16 datacenters #25, 6 datacenters #27]
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
50 - 4/20/2004 (9 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/20/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
93 - 4/20/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's (no way of telling which are accounted for)

 

I would like to point out that, since our big jump from #92 to #29 on 4/18/2004, Google has recorded an additional 12 of Bob's links but there has been no notable movement in the page's position.

 

Update Addition:

For what it is worth...

The "New Page" just came up today #3 for a search on Sleeping Bags in YAHOO!

I have no clue why... I do NOT understand how Yahoo! works yet.

note: I have been monitoring it's "sister page" [Nebo Sleeping Bags] who was struggling at ~position #155 ("she is nowhere to be found now for the search in Yahoo!)

 

I'm not surprised. Have you seen this article on Yahoo Bombing.

It appears from these results that Yahoo just might be taking more notice of backlinks right now than Google.

What is interesting about this is that a lot of people have said that the way to optimize for Yahoo is to add more content and have even higher keyword density. The Sleeping Bags page in fact is deficient as far as on page content goes. There are no <H> tags and there is no body of text content that features our keyword phrase.

What we should do when we are satisfied that we have learned all we can from this test is add these on-page elements and see what happens to the Yahoo ranking.

 

The section of ski france has not been updated by google since 18th so I would guess at today for an update

the section for ski jobs france has not been updated [except us on the 18th] for some time

Will let you know when they do

PS Meant to say that the PR5 is also in Yahoo directory, DMOZ and Google Directory

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#29 allinanchor:#15 - 04/20/2004 [16 datacenters #25, 6 datacenters #27]
Postion#25 allinanchor:#7 - 04/21/2004 [All datacenters]
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
50 - 4/20/2004 (9 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
50 - 4/21/2004 (7 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/20/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/21/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
1 - 4/21/2004
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
93 - 4/20/2004
97 - 4/21/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's (no way of telling which are accounted for)
__________________

 

Hello schlottke,

Thank you so much for the offer!

I think, at this point, we should not add any additional links to this experiment and just see where everything, so far, takes us.

But, I would like to keep your offer in reserve and use it to "tweek" the results down the road. If that is okay with you.

Thanks again for your support!!!!

Caryl

 

There are many theories that have taken hold around the SEO Forums that this experiment may proove false! (or true)

1. One I have heard discussed is to AVOID getting links from sites that are not "related" to or in the same "theme" as your own.
---All but 8 links to the "new page" are from sites NOT RELATED to the "theme" of the page/site. ( I have actually seen people ask for links to their sites to be removed because of the notion that it will HARM there position)

2. Another theory I have seen is that "you must vary or alternate your anchor text - too much of the same and you will be penalized".
--- 100% of the links to this page say only sleeping bags

3. "You must keep your keyword density LOW to avoid spam filters"
--- the keyword density of the "new page" is 15.35% for sleeping bags

[edited to add]
4. "multiple links from an external site have little value"
--- 50 of the links to this page are from one site
Please note: that a reference to multiple links from a single site may well be about extensive crosslinking - this is not the case here and this experiment does NOT address that issue.

5. "placement of links on a page can have a big effect"
--- most all of the links to this page are at the bottom of the pages.
Please note: often times this "placement" issue is regarding link pages with more than 100k of text. - this is not the case here and this experiment does NOT address that issue.

6. "PR/Backlink updates is when you will see the serps change due to the addition of Backlinks and PR.
--- the new page has made significant progress prior to any updates.
Please note: we do not yet know if, once the update does occur, most likely sometime this weekend, if we will see a boost simply because we have some PR versus none at all.

[end of edit]
If there are filters for these things, apparently they have not yet been applied.

If anybody can think of any others, let me know and I will add them to the list.

 

Caryl,

A related issue that you missed is the contention that multiple links from a single site do not have value. The 50 link from my InfoPool are all on a single site and certainly don't seem to have hurt the experiment.

The other issue is the position of link on the page. All the links on my pages are at the very bottom and are placed via a server side include file.

We changed the title, to start with our prime keyword phrase, early in the experiment. So we cannot judge the influence of this as a separate variable, but I suspect that it has played a part in our success.

And finally the thing that has been proven conclusively is that SERP placement is totally unrelated to the publishing of the PR and backlink updates. Many people impatiently wait for these upgrades thinking that their SERP placement will improve as soon as the update is published. These two factors are obviously unrelated.

 

Another Update Addition:

I just saw an entry in my logs for a search on Google for sleeping bag (singular).

Since we have not targeted the singular version, I have not checked for it.

When I just looked on Google, I was surprised to find the the "new page" is in position#14 for sleeping bag!

 

It's called stemming. On one of my sites I rank higher for the plural than I do for the singular and I am optimized exclusively for the singular.

So one more proof -- Google is using stemming in their relevancy calculation.

One of the other thing we can test for down the road is the impact of <h> tags. I don't think you are using any on the page at the moment, but it would not be unreasonable to enclose all the picture titles or descriptions in heading tags.

I mentioned earlier that we didn't have much content and of course that isn't absolutely correct. Each picture title is content. But another thing to test for would be to write a couple of parargraphs about what people will find on the page and why they should buy from McDar. This might actually lower the keyword density a bit, but it would be interesting to see if it made any difference.

 

Its from the allinurl, BUT!!!!

www.mcdar.com/camping1/sleeping-bags.htm

the "sleeping-bag" bit is hilited [Compar is right about the stemming]

If you go and do a search for "sleeping bags" using the very useful McDar tool allin's , I've listed it here for convenience, Hehe

http://www.mcdar.net/dance/index.php

you will see that you are

7 allintext
7 allinanchor
2 allinurl

BUT if you do that with "sleeping bag"

you are not there - now that means that G has a two tier way of determining allinurl - does it not!!

 

Foxy,

I have noticed that if you use plural, Google will include in singular, BUT I don't see it for singular to plural.

If you do a search for allinanchor:sleeping bag (singular) you will see the #1 position comes up in in the regular search for sleeping bag in #10 spot. Note: that page!

Now do a search for sleeping bags... That page is NOWHERE to be found!

 

The singular to plural is exactly what has happened to my site. The site is highly optimized for
Online Pharmacy. But for the singular it ranks #38 and for Online Pharmacies it ranks #20.

So stemming works both ways I'm sure.

 

Bob,

After I posted my last reply I thought of a perfectly logical reason as to why that page would NOT be listed for the plural form...

They probably optimized another page for the plural that would omit that one from the results.

BUT, I just checked and they did not. No pages on that site come up in the results for a search on sleeping bags!

You would think that if you are #1 for allinanchor (singular version) that you would come up somewhere for the plural version...

 

So we might not have to wait for the PR update to see the effects? So when we find links online, we could get immediate results as long as google finds the links pretty much? So basically all that we have to wait for is google to cache the page?

Now what about deeper pages? Does google do a deepcrawl around a week prior to the PR toolbar (I say toolbar to separate it from the routine PR updates if they actually are going on), or is the deepcrawling of sites going on at different times for each site?

I read about deepcrawling going on last week I think, but I still haven't really looked closely enough to see if my sites were deepcrawled yet. Is there any pattern to this?