McDar Experiment

That's very funny, but Google built their search engine on the theory that an inbound link was a vote for the web site. I don't think it's a big jump in logic from there to think that a long term registration is a vote from the owner to the importance or seriousness of the web site.

Sure it may not cost the owner much money, but if you don't know that goole is monitoring it and you only plan to exploit a domain for a few months, why would you register it for several years? So it is less a matter of money. It is a measure of motivation or intent.

The other thing is that it is so very easy to implement and use as part of an algo. I don't have any proof, but the few top 5 i've checked all had multiple years of registration. Why don't some other of you spend some time checking? See if you can find any top 5s for competitive keywords that have single year renewals.

 

Dave,

Did I suggest that for one fucking moment? All I suggested is that it is one possible factor that could be changed and tested without any real danger to the page.

There is no way that I suggested that this is the sole reason. Jesus Christ I'm so sick of people jumping all over you and interpreting any suggestion you make as total solution.

I think the reason the page has been so buffetted is because Google is broken. I've said that a million times. Don't accuse me of suggesting this is the only and total explanation.

I'll bet there is no way that you would understand that your response has pissed me off. But responses like this are sure a hell of a motivation to just mind my own fucking business and never make a suggestion again.

 

Bob:

Don't take it so personnally. I didn't even remember who first mentioned the idea until I read this post. After reading a bunch of posts I began to see the logic and I just pm'd a blackhatter I know to ask how for how long he registers his domains. Geez if he goes for a short time and the evidence is that long term registration coincides with higher rankings I'll up my main site and others for the max. I'm checking all my competitors for time on their registrations.

(At least in this case) I wasn't accusing any one...in fact the idea is intriguing. I don't believe any of us tie this one idea to the drop in the rankings for the experiment page. Cripes...none of us know the cause...in fact...it appears that over the length of this experiment....we haven't come up with THE ANSWER...so we keep taking shots.

You misinterpreted my comments (or I miswrote them). They certainly weren't an attack.

Dave

 

In fact I just got an answer to my pm. from my bh friend.

He gets about 100,000 pages up in a week. (didn't say how many domains that represents) and registers his domains for a year. I know he'll buy lots at one time (though I forget the number)

I do know from other comments of his...the sites often go down within a few months...and btw indexing of his pages dramatically trails gettting them up.

he must get millions of pages up within a year. Says he is making consistently good money doing this.

For all we know...he is scraping the content of everyone here...and potentially creating worthless links to all of us. Bless him!

In any case that is the registration info from one bhatter.

Dave

 

K...Saturday night at this hour, 1/2 in the bag, seems as though the last few posts are coming from a similar angle . Bob and McDar have got a gr8 thread going on. This statement by earlpearl is the ticket we are all looking for! The secret sauce recipe...BURP!

IMO, we need to know the recipe the Colonel uses!!

 

Charming as ever.

I have a site that was registered for 2 years in 2000, then for 2 years in 2002, then 1 year in 2004, 1 year in 2005 and has been overall slowly increasing in rankings and traffic ever since, it was hit by bourbon, jagger (+ a couple of times in 2004) each time recovering.

Almost all factors in their algo are designed to produce the best 'model' for them. Having long registered domains gives them no real benefit.

Against
1. Spammers will just register domains for longer (the time taken to find niches, choose & register names, arrange hosting etc are a big % of the time and costs) - so the business model will change slightly, leaving domains a bit longer before
2. Some domains have no need to be registered for 10 years. (2008olympictickets.com)
3. Certain countries insist on different lengths of registration time. (so all UK domains will rank better will they?)
4. Any good spammer will EASILY make their roi on a domain even if its registered for 10 years (whats that $50 or so?).
5. Are domain names, google even going to be around in 10 years?
6. It is a part of the algo that requires no skill to manipulate making it open to a much bigger spamming market. - (Easier & cheaper than paying someone to redesign your nav for example)
7. What happens when 2,5 or 10 years is the defacto, spam or not?

For
1. Higher startup costs - affects everyone, not just spammers
2. Motivational effect - convince people not to buy & die their domains.

What other benefits are there ?

High ranking & traffic sites will value their domains more and are more likely to register them for longer especially as they are often making a big profit and really dont want to lose income/ credibility or their job with a domain lapse.

google.co.uk is only registered until 2007 - so if I register until 2015 Ill stand a better chance against them. Really?
google.net is only registered until 2006
msn.co.uk is registered until 2006

As far as I am concerned it can only work for a very short time. To have a rumour going that domains wont rank as well if they are only registered for a year is a good PR spin and even if it stops 10% of people considering doing it thats alot of spam prevented and at a very low cost.

 

What a beautifully reasoned arguement on why Google would never consider the length of the registration period as a factor. It is too bad they didn't consult you when they got the idea that inbound links could be used to determine the value or relevance of a page.

 

I have just read through the posts regarding Domain registration, three times, and I am not sure what I think about all this just yet...

I can grasp the logic that Google may consider the longevity/history/age of a page and give credit of authority because it has been in existance for a number of years.

Perhaps with new sites that would be an added value of intent or seriousness. Example: two new sites targeting the same keyword. The one with the longer registration period given preference over the shorter registration time.

BUT to give any preference of a new site because it is registered for 9 years over a site that has been around for years that just happens to be registered for only one additional year - dosn't seem to make sense.

If this really were a factor - would you register your domain for nine years and then keep registering it for an additional year every year after - just to keep it registered for nine years out?

Again - it makes sense if used as a way of evaluating new sites without a history to evaluate...

I guess I need to think about this some more before I can say much more on the subject.

Caryl

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #430 allinanchor: #105 --11/23/2005 [12 DCs #430, 4 DCs #434, 9 DCs #446, 4 DCs #451, 4 DCs #487]**(Allinanchor #102 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
Postion #482 allinanchor: #105 --11/24/2005 [10 DCs #430, 2 DCs #462, 4 DCs #464, 7 DCs #480, 10 DCs #482]**(Allinanchor #104 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
Postion #485 allinanchor: #108 --11/25/2005 [10 DCs #425, 2 DCs #481, 10 DCs #485, 4 DCs #488, 7 DCs #492]**(Allinanchor #108 on All DCs )
Postion #425 allinanchor: #107 --11/26/2005 [2 DCs #392, 7 DCs #402, 10 DCs #425, 10 DCs #426, 4 DCs #472]**(Allinanchor #107 on 26 DCs, #108 on 6 DCs )
Postion #425 allinanchor: #100 --11/27/2005 [4 DCs #421, 10 DCs #425, 6 DCs #437, 10 DCs #463, 3 DCs #485]**(Allinanchor #100 on All DCs )
Postion #421 allinanchor: #102 --11/28/2005 [2 DCs #398, 10 DCs #421, 4 DCs #443, 6 DCs #444, 4 DCs #450, 4 DCs #463, 3 DCs #467]**(Allinanchor #100 on 10 DCs, #102 on 21 DCs, #116 on 2 DCs )
Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/29/2005 [4 DCs #402, 3 DCs #409, 4 DCs #411, 10 DCs #436, 12 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 12 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs )
Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/30/2005 [6 DCs #397, 10 DCs #399, 3 DCs #424, 14 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 10 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs, #120 on 2 DCs )
Postion #415 allinanchor: #119 --12/01/2005 [10 DCs #395, 6 DCs #402, 4 DCs #422, 10 DCs #415, 3 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #119 on All DCs )
Postion #432 allinanchor: #114 --12/02/2005 [2 DCs #394, 4 DCs #400, 3 DCs #414, 10 DCs #432, 4 DCs #433, 10 DCs #442]**(Allinanchor #114 on 23 DCs, #117 on 10 DCs )
Postion #408 allinanchor: #115 --12/03/2005 [4 DCs #405, 10 DCs #408, 3 DCs #421, 2 DCs #423, 4 DCs #432, 10 DCs #442]**(Allinanchor #115 on All DCs )

Postion #408 allinanchor: #114 -12/04/2005 [4 DCs #408, 3 DCs #439, 4 DCs #441, 10 DCs #442, 2 DCs #456, 10 DCs #461]** (Note: Allinanchor #114 on All DCs )

Cache Date: Dec 01, 2005 16:07:25 GMT
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

142 - 11/16/2005
Unchanged from previous date
140 - 11/19/2005
Unchanged from previous date
149 - 11/21/2005
142 - 11/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
105 - 11/24/2005
Unchanged from previous date
101 - 11/26/2005
100 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
108 - 12/02/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

418 - 11/04/2005
409 - 11/05/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2300 - 11/09/2005
2290 - 11/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
409 - 11/17/2005
2290 - 11/18/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2280 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2290 - 12/02/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

156 - 9/08/2005
Unchanged from previous date
155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
138 - 11/04/2005
Unchanged from previous date
147 - 11/19/2005
Unchanged from previous date
145 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
251 - 2/12/2005
261 - 3/03/2005
273 - 3/18/2005
275 - 3/19/2005
508 - 4/09/2005
560 - 5/20/2005
627 - 6/14/2005
536 - 6/25/2005
584 - 7/11/2005
631 - 7/29/2005
15,785 - 8/19/2005
3891 - 10/20/2005
3904 - 10/26/2005
3699 - 11/08/2005
3461 - 11/28/2005
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________

PR/Backlink info

~ April 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
143 Backlinks reported
___________

~ March 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
113 Backlinks reported
___________

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
260 Backlinks reported
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

"A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
__________________
Note:Google API has page at #n/a

 

Well - Google finally updated the cache - a little...

We now have a new "Phantom" Cache Date!

BTW - Here is what the links to this page and the number of indexed pages in the main site, look like today in Google across the Datacenters.


Six Datacenters are reporting old Backlinks from the October 20th Update.

PLUS

Quite a difference in the indexed pages. One Datacenter bank (3 DCs) reporting 134,000 pages and others reporting 268 pages.

Imagine the ramifications of this sort of indexing... (not just my site)

What ever becomes of the outbound links on the "missing" pages? How does this effect the sites depending on those links?

Googles indexing problems certainly can wield grave consequences due to loss of links to connected sites.

Caryl

 

Just amazing. as you know, my sites are experiencing the same volatility. It's nuts.

 

Glenn,

I am glad you added that.

Sometimes it is easy to overlook the fact that what is happening to the experiment page, is also happening to a great many other pages!!!

Caryl

 

As long as it has been in the index then the length of time should matter, which makes sense usually.

In theory yes - a domain registered for longer is more likely to be more serious at the moment - but that wouldnt last if implemented.

Exactly

Exactly, just because I keep my domain with 9 years on it. Doesnt mean its more relevant to sleeping bags than yours in any way.

What defines a new site? Also, most new sites that arent a dead cert are probably registered for as short a period as possible. Why would you register a new domain for 10 years unless you knew it would be worth it?

 

In the very brief survey I did of the top 5 sites for a few different competitive keywords the shortest registration period I found was 3 years. Some of these sites were in fact in the last year of their three year registration period, so if you give the theory any credence at all, it would appear that you don't need to perpetually have your site registered into the future, but rather that upon the last registration you did in fact register for a multi year period.

 

I am finding similar results with the KWs I am tracking. The higher percentage of top dogs have longer domain registrations, but not all. Definately it's a note I have made. It certainly won't hurt and makes sense.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when all the Google engineers sit at a table and make this stuff up.

It seems really rough at Google today I keep fading and coming back in serps under KWs. Some of the most radically changing results

 

in oct of this yr
i registed my domain for 10yrs
Dates: Created 04-jan-2004 Updated 18-oct-2005 Expires 04-jan-2015
and google is still messing with my site
in and out of cache, no traffic, all my keywords gone
old cache date, was nov 14, then nov 8th now its stuck on nov 23
the odd thing my index pages was dropping now it in the thousands..
my blog is having the same issue(subdomain)
as well as my fourm ( has 24000 pages index) now5310 but the home page is no longer cached...

dam this is frustrating ...
when will the madness end.

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #482 allinanchor: #105 --11/24/2005 [10 DCs #430, 2 DCs #462, 4 DCs #464, 7 DCs #480, 10 DCs #482]**(Allinanchor #104 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
Postion #485 allinanchor: #108 --11/25/2005 [10 DCs #425, 2 DCs #481, 10 DCs #485, 4 DCs #488, 7 DCs #492]**(Allinanchor #108 on All DCs )
Postion #425 allinanchor: #107 --11/26/2005 [2 DCs #392, 7 DCs #402, 10 DCs #425, 10 DCs #426, 4 DCs #472]**(Allinanchor #107 on 26 DCs, #108 on 6 DCs )
Postion #425 allinanchor: #100 --11/27/2005 [4 DCs #421, 10 DCs #425, 6 DCs #437, 10 DCs #463, 3 DCs #485]**(Allinanchor #100 on All DCs )
Postion #421 allinanchor: #102 --11/28/2005 [2 DCs #398, 10 DCs #421, 4 DCs #443, 6 DCs #444, 4 DCs #450, 4 DCs #463, 3 DCs #467]**(Allinanchor #100 on 10 DCs, #102 on 21 DCs, #116 on 2 DCs )
Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/29/2005 [4 DCs #402, 3 DCs #409, 4 DCs #411, 10 DCs #436, 12 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 12 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs )
Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/30/2005 [6 DCs #397, 10 DCs #399, 3 DCs #424, 14 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 10 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs, #120 on 2 DCs )
Postion #415 allinanchor: #119 --12/01/2005 [10 DCs #395, 6 DCs #402, 4 DCs #422, 10 DCs #415, 3 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #119 on All DCs )
Postion #432 allinanchor: #114 --12/02/2005 [2 DCs #394, 4 DCs #400, 3 DCs #414, 10 DCs #432, 4 DCs #433, 10 DCs #442]**(Allinanchor #114 on 23 DCs, #117 on 10 DCs )
Postion #408 allinanchor: #115 --12/03/2005 [4 DCs #405, 10 DCs #408, 3 DCs #421, 2 DCs #423, 4 DCs #432, 10 DCs #442]**(Allinanchor #115 on All DCs )
Postion #442 allinanchor: #114 --12/04/2005 [4 DCs #408, 3 DCs #439, 4 DCs #441, 10 DCs #442, 2 DCs #456, 10 DCs #461]**(Allinanchor #114 on All DCs )

Postion #408 allinanchor: #115 -12/05/2005 [4 DCs #408, 3 DCs #439, 4 DCs #441, 10 DCs #442, 2 DCs #456, 10 DCs #461]** (Note: Allinanchor #115 on All DCs )

Cache Date: Dec 01, 2005 16:07:25 GMT
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

142 - 11/16/2005
Unchanged from previous date
140 - 11/19/2005
Unchanged from previous date
149 - 11/21/2005
142 - 11/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
105 - 11/24/2005
Unchanged from previous date
101 - 11/26/2005
100 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
108 - 12/02/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

418 - 11/04/2005
409 - 11/05/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2300 - 11/09/2005
2290 - 11/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
409 - 11/17/2005
2290 - 11/18/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2280 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
2290 - 12/02/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
138 - 11/04/2005
Unchanged from previous date
147 - 11/19/2005
Unchanged from previous date
145 - 11/27/2005
Unchanged from previous date
132 - 12/05/2005
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
251 - 2/12/2005
261 - 3/03/2005
273 - 3/18/2005
275 - 3/19/2005
508 - 4/09/2005
560 - 5/20/2005
627 - 6/14/2005
536 - 6/25/2005
584 - 7/11/2005
631 - 7/29/2005
15,785 - 8/19/2005
3891 - 10/20/2005
3904 - 10/26/2005
3699 - 11/08/2005
3461 - 11/28/2005
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________

PR/Backlink info

~ April 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
143 Backlinks reported
___________

~ March 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
113 Backlinks reported
___________

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
260 Backlinks reported
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

"A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
__________________
Note:Google API has page at #n/a

 

Notice...

I have set up a "private" area of my forum for the purpose of discussing and setting up a "sister" experiment - experiment 2.

If you are interested in participating in this experiment please sign up at my forum - forums.mcdar.net - and PM me so I can grant you permission to the area.

All are welcome!
Caryl

 

Awesome idea - a non-public version of this experiment would be soooo beneficial.

Expect to hear from me.

 

Great idea McDar. Google doesn't invite us to thier party, why should they be invited to ours? Homer has joined your forum and looks forward to contributing, learning and discovering what we can behind closed doors!


Gr8 plan .