McDar Experiment

Right - will keep my itchy fingers at bay

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
****Google PR/Backlink update currently is in progress!

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#29 allinanchor:#15 - 04/20/2004 [16 datacenters #25, 6 datacenters #27]
Postion#25 allinanchor:#7 - 04/21/2004 [All datacenters]
Postion#18 allinanchor: #7 - 04/22/2004 [10 datacenters #19]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/23/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/24/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/25/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/26/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7- 04/27/2004 [18 datacenters #16]
Postion #21 allinanchor: #8 - 04/28/2004 [All datacenters] Note: Allinanchor #7 on 5 DCs & #9 on 7 DCs
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
50 - 4/20/2004 (9 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
50 - 4/21/2004 (7 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
51 - 4/22/2004 (12 datacenters report 48, 5 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/23/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/24/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/25/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/26/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
50 - 4/27/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/28/2004 (All datacenters )
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/20/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/21/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/22/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/23/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/24/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/25/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/26/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/27/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/28/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
1 - 4/21/2004
1 - 4/22/2004
1 - 4/23/2004
1 - 4/24/2004
1 - 4/25/2004
1 - 4/26/2004
2 - 4/27/2004
2 - 4/28/2004
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
93 - 4/20/2004
97 - 4/21/2004
104 - 4/22/2004
111 - 4/23/2004
117 - 4/24/2004
121 - 4/25/2004
127 - 4/26/2004
129 - 4/27/2004
132 - 4/28/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's (no way of telling which are accounted for)
__________________
PR/Backlink info (so far) from the 64.233.161.xxx bank of datacenters

sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
(backlinks reported in the 49)
5 of Caryl's links
42 of Bob's Links
1 of Foxy's Links
2 for Digitalpoint forums
Nothing for Alek's link(?)
__________________

__________________

 

Hi mcdar,

It was an interesting read.

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#29 allinanchor:#15 - 04/20/2004 [16 datacenters #25, 6 datacenters #27]
Postion#25 allinanchor:#7 - 04/21/2004 [All datacenters]
Postion#18 allinanchor: #7 - 04/22/2004 [10 datacenters #19]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/23/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/24/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/25/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/26/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7- 04/27/2004 [18 datacenters #16]
Postion #21 allinanchor: #8 - 04/28/2004 [All datacenters] Note: Allinanchor #7 on 5 DCs & #9 on 7 DCs
Postion #21 allinanchor: #7 - 04/29/2004 [9 datacenters #23] Note: Allinanchor #6 on 16 DCs
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
50 - 4/20/2004 (9 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
50 - 4/21/2004 (7 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
51 - 4/22/2004 (12 datacenters report 48, 5 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/23/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/24/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/25/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/26/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
50 - 4/27/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/28/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/29/2004 (All datacenters )
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/20/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/21/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/22/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/23/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/24/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/25/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/26/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/27/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/28/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/29/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
1 - 4/21/2004
1 - 4/22/2004
1 - 4/23/2004
1 - 4/24/2004
1 - 4/25/2004
1 - 4/26/2004
2 - 4/27/2004
2 - 4/28/2004
2 - 4/28/2004
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
93 - 4/20/2004
97 - 4/21/2004
104 - 4/22/2004
111 - 4/23/2004
117 - 4/24/2004
121 - 4/25/2004
127 - 4/26/2004
129 - 4/27/2004
132 - 4/28/2004
133 - 4/29/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's (no way of telling which are accounted for)
__________________
PR/Backlink info (so far) from the 64.233.161.xxx bank of datacenters

sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
(backlinks reported in the 49)
5 of Caryl's links
42 of Bob's Links
1 of Foxy's Links
2 for Digitalpoint forums
Nothing for Alek's link(?)
__________________

__________________

 

How did you find the number of links changing each day - you list a datacentre but how do you use it?

thanks

 

leeds1,

I am not reporting the number of links changing. I am reporting the fact that Google has cached the page the link is located on.

I use the Google Datacenter Watch Tool (link is my sig below) and search for the following...

The reason I can search this way is that none of these sites have the words sleeping bags anywhere else accept in the link to this experimental page.

It is important to remember that nothing is stagnant in Google. Just because Google now reports 49 links to this page, does not actually mean that TODAY Google is actually counting or will continue to count ALL 49.

As new links are discovered, they will be taken into account and conversely, if links are lost, that will be taken into account and reflected in the serps on an on-going bases. Googles report of Backlinks will remain the same until the next update. Even though it will not be accurate.

Given that this is a controled experiment, we know exactly how many links there are to this page. Just how many links Google is ACTUALLY crediting this page with at any given moment, will most likely always remain an unknown.

 

Do you do all of that manually ? or set up a little script ?

 

I do it all manually. It really dosn't take that long.

 

McDar I was just wondering if it would be of use to place an allintext column alongside the allinanchor in your tool as I was looking at the sleeping bags example on the tool this morning and I noticed that the number 1

1. sleepingbagsandtents.com

was number 1 for allinanchor but also no.1 for allintext but nowhere for all in url

yours is no.7 for allinanchor 7 for all in text and 2 in allinurl yet still not at number 7 in the order of things!

If we take Compars thoughts on onpage seo into account would it not be a good idea to have this column in place before any such action is taken?

 

Hi Foxy,

Not so fast! Just because we have moved to #7 for allinanchor (and allintext), does not neccessarily mean we deserve to be in the top 10 results for this search.

I have taken the liberty of adding two columns to today's Keyword Tool results to help point out something I suspect to be true.

I believe that what "category" a site is in can add extra weight. You will see that the Manufacturers seem to have an advantage here.

Here is my challange: (to everyone - it is a good exercise in analysis) - Look at the attached table and tell us which site in the top ten, we have the best shot at replacing and why/how.

______________________
Bonus Question:
Look at the last two Manufacturers, Big Agnes and Wiggy's. Can you tell us why the PR5(Big Agnes) site has placed ahead of the PR6(Wiggy's) site?
______________________

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
Position#n/a allinanchor:#n/a - 04/08/2004
position#104 allinanchor#32 - 04/09/2004
Postion#232 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/11/2004
Postion#193 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/12/2004
Postion#136 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/13/2004
Postion#133 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/14/2004
Postion#108 allinanchor:#n/a - 04/15/2004
Postion#104 allinanchor:#30 - 04/16/2004
Postion#92 allinanchor:#32 - 04/17/2004
Postion#29 allinanchor:#13 - 04/18/2004 [11 datacenters #30, 4 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#28 allinanchor:#13 - 04/19/2004 [ 5 datacenters #27, 2 datacenters #22]
Postion#29 allinanchor:#15 - 04/20/2004 [16 datacenters #25, 6 datacenters #27]
Postion#25 allinanchor:#7 - 04/21/2004 [All datacenters]
Postion#18 allinanchor: #7 - 04/22/2004 [10 datacenters #19]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/23/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7 - 04/24/2004 [7 datacenters #21]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/25/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #17 allinanchor: #6 - 04/26/2004 [7 datacenters #20]
Postion #19 allinanchor: #7- 04/27/2004 [18 datacenters #16]
Postion #21 allinanchor: #8 - 04/28/2004 [All datacenters] Note: Allinanchor #7 on 5 DCs & #9 on 7 DCs
Postion #21 allinanchor: #7 - 04/29/2004 [9 datacenters #23] Note: Allinanchor #6 on 16 DCs
Postion #21 allinanchor: #7 - 04/30/2004 [7 datacenters #23, 13 datacenters #24] Note: Allinanchor #8 on 14 DCs
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
19 - 4/13/2004
24 - 4/14/2004
40 - 4/15/2004 (most datacenters report 40 but some as low as 31)
37 - 4/16/2004 (7 datacenters report 36, 7 report 42, the rest - 37)
37 - 4/17/2004 (8 datacenters report 36, the rest - 37)
38 - 4/18/2004 (10 datacenters report 37, 16 report 32, the rest - 37)
48 - 4/19/2004 (7 datacenters report 47, the rest - 48)
50 - 4/20/2004 (9 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
50 - 4/21/2004 (7 datacenters report 49, the rest - 50)
51 - 4/22/2004 (12 datacenters report 48, 5 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/23/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/24/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/25/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
51 - 4/26/2004 (7 datacenters report 50, the rest - 51)
50 - 4/27/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/28/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/29/2004 (All datacenters )
50 - 4/30/2004 (All datacenters )
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/19/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/20/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/21/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/22/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/23/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/24/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/25/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/26/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/27/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/28/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/29/2004 (all datacenters)
Reported by Google 4/30/2004 (all datacenters)
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
1 - 4/21/2004
1 - 4/22/2004
1 - 4/23/2004
1 - 4/24/2004
1 - 4/25/2004
1 - 4/26/2004
2 - 4/27/2004
2 - 4/28/2004
2 - 4/29/2004
2 - 4/30/2004
__________________
# of Links from my posts to this thead
69 4/17/2004 [Edited to remove 20 posts in this thread that did not have link]
75 - 4/18/2004
90 - 4/19/2004
93 - 4/20/2004
97 - 4/21/2004
104 - 4/22/2004
111 - 4/23/2004
117 - 4/24/2004
121 - 4/25/2004
127 - 4/26/2004
129 - 4/27/2004
132 - 4/28/2004
133 - 4/29/2004 [/B]
137 - 4/30/2004
__________________
Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's
__________________
PR/Backlink info (so far) from the 64.233.161.xxx bank of datacenters

sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
(backlinks reported in the 49)
5 of Caryl's links
42 of Bob's Links
1 of Foxy's Links
2 for Digitalpoint forums
Nothing for Alek's PR7 link(the link on Alek's page is 53rd link - may validate the 50 link/page theory)
__________________

__________________

 

Oh yes you are

You certainly will be soon!

 

Foxy,

I hope you read the whole post and are considering the table I put up. Placing high in allinanchor and allintext is NOT the only factor in determining placement!

In fact, the #9 position for allinanchor:sleeping bags (campstoves.net) is NOWHERE in the 775 regular search results returned for sleeping bags.

This is plain to see on the table.

Caryl

 

Let me say I agree 100% with you. It is just way too simplistic to think that one parameter like allinanchor is all it takes to rank in the SERPs. There is another thread going on this forum that makes this equally simplistic suggestion
allinanchor allintext allintitle pagerank = Google SERPs .

I think "relevance" is Google's most important measurement and they don't give us a tools to measure this. While I think anchor text and titles are important they are certainly not the whole answer.

As far a PR goes two of the top ten in your chart show PR0. I find this almost unbelievable, but that is what they show and they are in the top ten today????

Now to the questions.

1. I would say that the site we have the best shot at beating is #8, outdoorgear. The reason in order of importance are:
a. It is a UK domain showing up in a USA search.
b. We have a superior allinanchor rating.
c. It is showing PR0 at the moment -- very strange.

2. Big Agnes is placed ahead of Wiggy's because Google has a sexual bias in favor of woman The real reasons are:
a. Big Agnes has more backlinks.
b. Big Agnes has a better allinanchor rating.
c. This indicates one more time that PR is not a major determinant of SERP postion.

 

I'm only winding you up!!!

Yes I did read the whole post, and what is more, I read the whole thread this morning [yes it is true all 28 pages and 278 posts] but I'm thinking on my response to your questions - gut feel tells me one way but I am considering.....

 

Bob,
I don't find it unbelievable at all. Look at the SIZE of those sites!
24,900, 4510 (not so big), and 2,300,000 pages respectively.

I think #8 is almost unmovable, at least by us. Forget PR as we both agree, it means little here.
They have 4510 pages to our 275.
They have 180 Backlinks to our 49.
They have 6060 "other links" to our 566.
We would most likely have to beat them soundly in one of those areas and that won't happen anytime soon.

IF, you eliminate the manufacturers, we are left with stiff competition on this page.

The best target I see is gear-zone. I will just have to find a way to quickly add about 1500 pages to my site or quickly add 100 more quality links.

...and to think that this keyword is rated moderately difficult.

I think this emphasizes the challanges that the small moms and pops face with regard to search engine placement.

You must find a way to GO BIG or stay home - just me rambling...

Don't get me wrong, I think we will still move ahead but the closer we get, the steeper the climb.

Caryl

 

My gut feel was 8 also but unlike Bob I hadn't considered the geophysics as there is another uk in the first 10 too, but my order is

a. The superior allinanchor rating
b. Superior allintext
c Superior allinurl

The second question was
a. Big Agnes has more backlinks
b. Big Agnes has a better allinanchor rating
c. Big Agnes has a better allintext rating

There it is

 

I don't think that size overshadows the smaller site - what I think it does is that it gets you there quicker Eg the forums [on that other thread] - they are up there immediately because of their size and because they are being spidered all the time - my guess will be that in due course they will disappear as the relevance is determined and the real pages will remain.

Because of the smaller size the smaller sites take longer to rise because they don't inherit the authority

 

What I find unbelievable is not that they are in the top ten. What I find unbelievable is that they have this number of links and have no PR. PR is calculated from linking pages. How can they have all those links and no PR??????

 

Bob,

Now that you mention that, IT IS ODD!

How do you suppose that is?

Unless all of the links are on pages PR4 and above but the PR4 pages are NOT passing on PR value because there are TOO MANY other links on those same pages.

What do you think?

[edited to add]
I just clicked on the hyperlink in that table for sportsmans guide. Ironically, many of the pages included in the 387 backlinks are PR0 or PR2 internal pages of the site. But, indeed, looking at those pages, they have probably greater than 50 outgoing links on the page.