McDar Experiment

sleeping bags -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -das -das -dsa

what does this do, exactly

 

oh, and why was the ending -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -das -das -dsa chosen

 

any ideas on why you dropped the 10 or so places on the 16th - have you just put it down to flux ?

 

Hi Schlottke,

As you know, it is more difficult to move rapidly to the top of the search results now than it used to be. The theory is that this is due to Google dampening the effect/power of new links (the "sandbox" theory) for an uncertain amount of time. It also seems like the search above may show the results without the dampening effect, i.e. where your site had been positioned had the links been given their full effect.

These are, however, so far only theories -- and part of the McDar Experiment is to investigate these issues more closely. If the theories are correct, then your site's position using the sandbox-removal search above and its position using a normal search, should converge over time. We do, however, not know how long the new links remain in the sandbox, as Bob has pointed out. This is another question the experiment hopefully will throw some light on.

 

Which exclusion parameters you choose are irrelevant, as long as you choose a non-existent word and repeat it enough times to make the whole search consist of 10 or more words. You could also, for example, use -sdjfdkjf or -shsfhue or -fiuewugf.

 

As far as I can see, it is most likely flux. According to the material from McDar, Google has not dropped any of the backlinks, and I find it rather unlikely that so many other sites suddenly had their links coming out of the sandbox at the same time. Further, both the allinanchor and the sandbox-removal search results have been very stable. I cannot see anything else influencing the results at the moment.

 

leeds1,

I would be more concerned were it not for the thousands of other sites that are being reported as dropping huge amounts in the serps as well. Also, the fact that 31 datacenters are now down is an indication that Google is up to something at the moment.

This is NOT something that is just happening to the experimental page.

Caryl

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_______________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Position #18 allinanchor: #8 - 05/09/2004 [2 datacenters #16]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 2 DCs
Position #18 allinanchor: #8 - 05/10/2004 [5 datacenters #16]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 4 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #7 - 05/11/2004 [13 datacenters #15]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 13 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #7 - 05/12/2004 [21 datacenters #15]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 20 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #5 - 05/13/2004 [24 datacenters #14]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 28 DCs
Position #15 allinanchor: #6 - 05/14/2004 [28 datacenters #19]Note: Allinanchor #7 on 28 DCs
Position #15 allinanchor: #5 - 05/15/2004 [12 datacenters #19]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
Position #27 allinanchor: #5 - 05/16/2004 [11 datacenters #31]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
Position #28 allinanchor: #5 - 05/17/2004 [5 datacenters #33]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 6 DCs
Position #28 allinanchor: #4 - 05/18/2004 [2 DCs #25, 10 DCs #27, 4 DCs #29, 6 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 6 DCs
Postion #28 allinanchor: #4 - 05/19/2004 [8 DCs #27, 6 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 6 DCs
Postion #29 allinanchor: #4 - 05/20/2004 [9 DCs #28, 2 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 2 DCs **27 DCs are NOT responding**
Postion #27 allinanchor: #4 - 05/21/2004 [10 DCs #26, 2 DCs #33] Note: Allinanchor #5 on 2 DCs **31 DCs are NOT responding**

_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
56 - 5/18/2004 (All datacenters)
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date

__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
217 - 5/06/2004
241 - 5/07/2004
246 - 5/08/2004
901 - 5/09/2004 ( Looks like the sig links were picked up )
908 - 5/10/2004 ( 18 Datacenters report 1660)
1670 - 5/11/2004
1990 - 5/12/2004
2290 - 5/13/2004
2670 - 5/14/2004 ( 4 Datacenters report 2960)
2950 - 5/15/2004
3100 - 5/16/2004
3350 - 5/17/2004
3500 - 5/18/2004
Unchanged from previous date
3510 - 5/20/2004
3620 - 5/21/2004
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
9 - 5/11/2004
10 - 5/12/2004
13 - 5/13/2004
16 - 5/14/2004 ( 4 Datacenters report 110)
108 - 5/15/2004
108 - 5/16/2004
181 - 5/17/2004
230 - 5/18/2004
232 - 5/19/2004
254 - 5/20/2004
298 - 5/21/2004
__________________

"Sandbox" info - this search theoretically removes "sandbox" link filter
Results for - ( sleeping bags -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -das -das -dsa )
#3 - 05/15/2004
Unchanged from previous date
#2 - 05/21/2004

__________________

Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's
__________________
PR/Backlink info

sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
(backlinks reported in the 49)
5 of Caryl's links
42 of Bob's Links
1 of Foxy's Links
2 for Digitalpoint forums
Nothing for Alek's PR7 link(the link on Alek's page is 53rd link - may validate the 50 link/page theory)
__________________

 

Off the top of my head I think it was 24th May last year that my sites lost their links in the first major shuffle then 6 months later November was "Florida" and then "Austin" I believe was a reinstatement of some factors rather than a full shake up which resulted in my links reappearing and we are all seeing movement - some more than others. So 24th here we come [if my memory is right!]

 

Well Super. I can't wait until they come out of the sandbox and grow up then- I'll be #1 for just about every keyword relating to wrestling known to man. heh.

 

Well I just thought of something.. Perhaps they aren't ever going to receive their full effect now since google may have a filter in place to not allow all back links from say a forum, or hundreds of pages on the same domains content??

 

We will not know the answers to any of these questions until Google settles back down.

If we are lucky, there won't be too much of a mess to sort out when it is over.

 

It will be hard to tell anything for sure as McDar says until Google does the next PR/BL update. I tend to think they may be discounting some of the sig link from the forum. Other wise the sudden addition of 3500 new link would have made a larger change in the 'allinanchor:' ranking. At least one would think so.

I just had a thought. Google is supposed to only count one identical link per page. If this is the case then it would dilute our usable link count by about a factor of 10. So maybe we are really only getting credit for 350 links rather than the 3500 that actual appear in sigs.

 

Thats what I was thinking to. I assumed that google somehow is reading sig links and counting either 1 or none of them, its hard to tell at this point. Im still seeing gradual increases on all my terms without going on any linking campaigns. The only thing that strikes me as odd and throws that whole idea off is my term wrestling directory. I link ONLY from 4 forums with this term, no where else, and the site is #4.

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_______________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Position #18 allinanchor: #8 - 05/10/2004 [5 datacenters #16]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 4 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #7 - 05/11/2004 [13 datacenters #15]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 13 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #7 - 05/12/2004 [21 datacenters #15]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 20 DCs
Position #17 allinanchor: #5 - 05/13/2004 [24 datacenters #14]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 28 DCs
Position #15 allinanchor: #6 - 05/14/2004 [28 datacenters #19]Note: Allinanchor #7 on 28 DCs
Position #15 allinanchor: #5 - 05/15/2004 [12 datacenters #19]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
Position #27 allinanchor: #5 - 05/16/2004 [11 datacenters #31]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
Position #28 allinanchor: #5 - 05/17/2004 [5 datacenters #33]Note: Allinanchor #6 on 6 DCs
Position #28 allinanchor: #4 - 05/18/2004 [2 DCs #25, 10 DCs #27, 4 DCs #29, 6 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 6 DCs
Postion #28 allinanchor: #4 - 05/19/2004 [8 DCs #27, 6 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 6 DCs
Postion #29 allinanchor: #4 - 05/20/2004 [9 DCs #28, 2 DCs #34]Note: Allinanchor #5 on 2 DCs **27 DCs are NOT responding**
Postion #27 allinanchor: #4 - 05/21/2004 [10 DCs #26, 2 DCs #33] Note: Allinanchor #5 on 2 DCs **31 DCs are NOT responding**
Postion #27 allinanchor: #3 - 05/22/2004 [1 DCs #25, 7 DCs #26] **31 DCs are NOT responding**

_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:
56 - 5/18/2004 (All datacenters)
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.komar.org +sleeping Bags )
Alek's PR 7 Link:
Not reported by Google 4/17/2004
Reported by Google 4/18/2004 (all datacenters)
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date

__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
217 - 5/06/2004
241 - 5/07/2004
246 - 5/08/2004
901 - 5/09/2004 ( Looks like the sig links were picked up )
908 - 5/10/2004 ( 18 Datacenters report 1660)
1670 - 5/11/2004
1990 - 5/12/2004
2290 - 5/13/2004
2670 - 5/14/2004 ( 4 Datacenters report 2960)
2950 - 5/15/2004
3100 - 5/16/2004
3350 - 5/17/2004
3500 - 5/18/2004
Unchanged from previous date
3510 - 5/20/2004
3620 - 5/21/2004
3650 - 5/22/2004
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
9 - 5/11/2004
10 - 5/12/2004
13 - 5/13/2004
16 - 5/14/2004 ( 4 Datacenters report 110)
108 - 5/15/2004
108 - 5/16/2004
181 - 5/17/2004
230 - 5/18/2004
232 - 5/19/2004
254 - 5/20/2004
298 - 5/21/2004
318 - 5/22/2004
__________________

"Sandbox" info - this search theoretically removes "sandbox" link filter
Results for - ( sleeping bags -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -dsa -das -das -dsa )
#3 - 05/15/2004
Unchanged from previous date
#2 - 05/21/2004
Unchanged from previous date

__________________

Caryl's Links [links posted 04/07/2004]
2 PR6s & 5 PR5's
__________________
PR/Backlink info

sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
(backlinks reported in the 49)
5 of Caryl's links
42 of Bob's Links
1 of Foxy's Links
2 for Digitalpoint forums
Nothing for Alek's PR7 link(the link on Alek's page is 53rd link - may validate the 50 link/page theory)
__________________

 

Bob,

We have moved from #8 to #3 in allinanchor. The ONLY change being the addition of the sig links during that time frame.

I think from #8 to #3 is a pretty big jump. 5 out of the possible 8 positions is not bad.

Now we just have to wait and see what Google is up to!

Caryl

 

Have you seen sleeping bag sales increase quite a bit?

 

I would still think, without doing any real research, that if we were 8th for less than 100 links before we all changed our sigs, that we should have been catapulted straight into #1 with the addition of 3500 addition new links. I'll bet when the PR/BL update finally arrives that we only get credit for about 350 links from the forum.

 

Just read through this thread from beginning to end. Phew! A lot of things I've seen in my own experimenting seem to be confirmed. Like the external link making a sudden difference - I linked from only 4 (PR4) pages of another domain to mine and shot up 10 places on a term I'd been stuck at around 16 for a long long while. Removed the link and shot down. Re-added and was back. The same effect except with moves of 100 and 160 positions was also seen in some related keyword searches!

One other effect I also noticed was that sometimes links from a domain gave a quick boost which then slightly diminishes or even disappears after a day or two. This one's a puzzler, and I have to run some tests on it to try and figure it out.

I also strongly suspect but need to test more that multiple links from the same domain don't have much effect past a certain number. So 50 links or 500 will have much the same effect. I'm seeing this myself where going from 2 links to 7 from the same domain made no noticeable difference (PR 5 and 6 links). Certainly the 3500/350 sig links seem to have made little difference to sleeping bags in this thread's study.

Once Alek drops his link I suspect we'll be seeing a sudden and drastic fall for sleeping bags. It would be infomative if Compar dropped his links one by one, from 55 down to a single one, to see where the suspected threshold (if indeed it exists) lies. Although with a server side include this would be a pain. Another alternative is that Alek add a second link from another page on his site.

 

yep its quite a thread but, as you have, its well worth reading all the way thru and also as I did reread to keep on track.

The quote above may well be answered by this one of Hexed

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=730

which is an very good attempt at an explanation and in my mind has substantial credence its a phenomena I call a "mexican wave" and I have been seeing it on a number of keyphrases - anyway go and have a look.

With regard to this experiment we are waiting for the "update" before we decide to alter things but what you suggest is well worth looking at - so keep tuned and put your penny's worth in when we start moving.

Some of what you say will be proven or otherwise when it does.