McDar Experiment

Patient,

Please explain more! There is ONLY ONE PAGE! You should NOT be getting anything else.

The page I saw cached by Google is the correct page.

Caryl

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**
***27 DCs are NOT resp**
****32 DCs are NOT resp**
*****36 DCs are NOT resp**

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #145 allinanchor: #7 -2/3/2005 [2 DCs #16, 4 DCs #19, 2 DCs #112, 12 DCs #144, 13 DCs #145]*****(Note: Allinanchor #5 on 4 DCs, #7 on 29 DCs)
Postion #100 allinanchor: #6 -2/4/2005 [8 DCs #100, 2 DCs #156, 3 DCs #159, 6 DCs #160, 5 DCs #161, 1 DCs #165]*****(Note: Allinanchor #6 on 25 DCs, #20 on 8 DCs)
Postion #99 allinanchor: #8 -2/5/2005 [See here - too numerous]*****(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 15 DCs, #25 on 12 DCs, #26 on 6 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #7 -2/6/2005 [3 DCs #88, 20 DCs #95, 6 DCs #97, 4 DCs #98]*****(Note: Allinanchor #2 on 2 DCs, #7 on 21 DCs, #15 on 10 DCs)
Postion #94 allinanchor: #7 -2/7/2005 [13 DCs #94, 2 DCs #97, 6 DCs #99, 12 DCs #100]*****(Note: Allinanchor #7 on 17 DCs, #28 on 16 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #8 -2/8/2005 [2 DCs #6, 15 DCs #95, 10 DCs #99, 6 DCs #100]*****(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 19 DCs, #30 on 16 DCs)
Postion #93 allinanchor: #20 -2/9/2005 [17 DCs #93, 6 DCs #99, 10 DCs #174]*****(Note: Allinanchor #20 on 17 DCs, #32 on 6 DCs, #219 on 10 DCs)

Postion #98 allinanchor: #116 -2/10/2005 [23 DCs #98, 4 DCs #202, 6 DCs #206]*****(Note: Allinanchor #116 on 23 DCs, #259 on 6 DCs, #260 on 4 DCs)

Postion #98 allinanchor: #115 -2/11/2005 [4 DCs #79, 19 DCs #98, 10 DCs #205]** (Note: Allinanchor #106 on 4 DCs, #115 on 19 DCs, #299 on 4 DCs, #302 on 6 DCs)
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

88 - 2/5/2005
91 - 2/6/2005
87 - 2/7/2005
99 - 2/8/2005
85 - 2/9/2005
83 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

4260 - 2/2/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4300 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4340 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

742 - 1/16/2005
744 - 1/29/2005
Unchanged from previous date
756 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
758 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

1508 - 1/7/2005
1457 - 1/10/2005
1416 - 1/12/2005
608 - 1/20/2005(786 lost links from one IP)
628 - 1/23/2005
606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 2/6/2005(148 lost links from one IP)
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________
PR/Backlink info

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
114 0f 260 Backlinks reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
36 for Foxy
36 for Others
7 for Digitalpoint forums
1 for SEO Chat forums
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
267 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
178 for Foxy
31 for Others
16 for Patient
5 for Digitalpoint forums
3 for SEO Chat forums
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

~ November 25 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
3530 Backlinks
___________

~ October 27 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
469 Backlinks
___________

~ September 11 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
566 Backlinks
___________

~ August 30 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
457 Backlinks
___________

~ August 9 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
85 Backlinks
___________

~ July 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
129 Backlinks
___________

~ June 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
325 Backlinks
___________

~ May 31 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
170 Backlinks
___________

~ April 23 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
__________________

~ Highest Positions Attained ~

Position #15 allinanchor: #5 - 05/15/2004 [12 datacenters #19] Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
(No signature links had been used at this point - may have been "honeymoon period")

Postion #14 allinanchor: #2 - 08/24/2004 [9 DCs #13, 21 DCs #14] ****

Postion #12 allinanchor: #2 - 10/04/2004 [10 DCs #11, 22 DCs #12] ****

Postion #10 allinanchor: #2 - 10/06/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #4 allinanchor: #2 - 10/21/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #2 allinanchor: #2 - 10/27/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

__________________
Note:Google API has page at #97

 

Just a quick update!

As you all know, I have been keeping a table with a record of Datacenter fluctuations regarding this experimental page since this update began.

On February 9th I began recording the allinanchor rankings across the datacenters along with the placement of the page in the regular search.

I have recorded these at different times throughout the day.

Currently, there is a direct correlation between allinanchor and the regular position so as allinanchor continues to plumit so goes the page.

I have kept this updated and have posted links to this page all over ( in different threads - so if you come upon a link it will be updated)

Datacenter Results February 2005

Yesterday's update of Googles cache of the page seems to have had no effect at stopping the pages free-fall deep into the Google abyss! - ...yet...

 

Take a look at the following thread at Search Engine Watch; http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=4009

It discusses Latent Semantics Indexing. Very heavy discussion. Above my head. I got through about 4-5 pages of the thread.

It seems to indicate that combinations of on page optimization with a Variety of anchor text is now important as of this latest update.

Now I'm just guessing, after only a limited review of the thread, that in the case of the experiment page where its increases in Serps and allinanchor are uniquely based on only one anchor text phrase, and coming from pages that primarily have nothing to do with sleeping bags, camping, or any associated topics the site has nose dived with this latest change in googles methods.

Uh oh. Lets all look at this and other issues. The dramatic drop definitely indicates that something very different has occurred. If the experiment page doesn't rebound in short order it may require a different type of effort.

Dave

 

Thanks for the link, Dave.

I prefer to keep it simple and work up from there. Although, it is possible that Google has implemented some highly evolved form of algorithim, one would think it would show some consistancy across the board.

But the hour to hour, Datacenter to Datacenter, wild fluctuations seem to indicate problems rather than a properly functioning, intentional change.

We are currently in Day 9 and I still see 6 Datacenters that have not updated the Backlinks yet.

I do agree that Google has implemented changes to it's algo this time as well but the "heady" explanations don't fit the changes I am seeing to old, mostly abandoned sites, with few links, and primarily optimized with older on-page techniques.

I could eat my hat soon (I keep plenty around for just such occasions) But the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

---------------------------------

Here are the updated results from today's recording of the Datacenters.

I wanted to point these out because I was TOO BOLD in making any such statment regarding Google as Direct Correlation! - Shame on me

Here is the link to the table Datacenter Results February 2005

The most notible changes were that 12 Datacenters now report allinachor position at #32.

Datacenter 216.239.39.99 showed the most drastic changes so far today

5:30AM: - Position #98, allinanchor #115
10:30 AM - Position #205, allinanchor #299
4M - Position #98, allinanchor #32

Sorry, but these results just look like Google garbage and not the result of some elaborite algorithim.

 

I think by the time that discussion got to today the consensus is that this is not where Google is at presently. Bit hard to follow though...most of it was way over my head although by the time I finished reading the whole thread I realised I had learnt a lot, maybe what I learnt is not relevant though .....file it away in my mind for the future

I am going to have to go back and have another look though .....there was a post towards the end that struck me as being very relevant to what is happening at the present with Google.

 

It has actually been in place for some time now

In one other thread I showed how 1 anchor text KWP lifted similar phrases around it to where I have 30 in the first 10

What is needed is the "flow of theme" from external linking to the internal linking using absolutely "correct" KWPs from the anchor text through titles, h1, text etc and on to the other pages where the "theme" follows.

In this latest dance I have seen a site which I have little interest in maintaining as a whole but where I have 2 pages that I wished to promote and so linked externally using 1 term for each page but the content is on the same theme, suddenly come back.

It came back across the board from nowhere to number 1 etc on the terms used but also with associated words eg house and property etc.

This is where it is interesting as I had to do very little to achieve the results of 14 in the first 10 with 8 with movements of +9999 and these were positions that I had on some in the past but now, with others as well.

I'm a happy bunny

 

It is very evident that on Feb 6 Google implemented something that elevated some sites drastically in the results!

According to the detailed info in my table Datacenter Results February 2005, Feb. 5th sometime between 10:30AM and 5M (EST) was the last time any Backlink Update changes were made to Datacenters. Currently, 6 Datacenters remain not updated. You can on that table that as of my first recording at 8:AM on February 6th, a drastic difference in the results from the previous evenings recordings.

What coincided with this change was a sudden re-appearance of one of my clients sites to it's once held #1 position in Google.



This site had previouly held that #1 position until late last spring when Google made a change that then left it buried beneath huge directories and mega sites.

The change on February 6th, 2005 put this tiny little site, with few, un-related, unthemed links, above the mega sites!

The return of this site could have absolutely NOTHING to do with themed links as the ONLY sites linked to it were a few camping related, one fishing site and a teaching related site. I used the keywords in the anchor text as we have been doing here.

As you can see from these results from the keyword tool, the mega sites remain but now this site is on top.



This site had remained UNCHANGED and UNTOUCHED since it's "sinking" late last spring. I told my client that the change was on Googles end and that there was simply nothing we could do to compete with the sites that replaced it. Fortunately, they placed all this time at #1 and #2 in the other search engines, so my client decided to trust my judgement.

I have other similar examples.

This is the very reason why I am so adamant that this February 6th change in Googles algorithim saw the return of some form of keyword prominance / on-page factors once again playing a role in the serps.

Edited to add: I just did one more check with our Datacenter Quickcheck Tool and found that of the remaining 6 datacenters yet to reflect Updated Backlink info...

216.239.53.99
66.102.7.99
216.239.53.104
66.102.7.104
66.102.7.105
66.102.7.147

These 6 Datacenters where the ONLY ones to still report this site at position #105!

The number of links reported to this site on these un-updated Datacenters is 33. The recent Update reflected on the remaining 27 Datacenters report only 21 backlinks to this site!

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**
***27 DCs are NOT resp**
****32 DCs are NOT resp**
*****36 DCs are NOT resp**

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #100 allinanchor: #6 -2/4/2005 [8 DCs #100, 2 DCs #156, 3 DCs #159, 6 DCs #160, 5 DCs #161, 1 DCs #165]*****(Note: Allinanchor #6 on 25 DCs, #20 on 8 DCs)
Postion #99 allinanchor: #8 -2/5/2005 [See here - too numerous]*****(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 15 DCs, #25 on 12 DCs, #26 on 6 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #7 -2/6/2005 [3 DCs #88, 20 DCs #95, 6 DCs #97, 4 DCs #98]*****(Note: Allinanchor #2 on 2 DCs, #7 on 21 DCs, #15 on 10 DCs)
Postion #94 allinanchor: #7 -2/7/2005 [13 DCs #94, 2 DCs #97, 6 DCs #99, 12 DCs #100]*****(Note: Allinanchor #7 on 17 DCs, #28 on 16 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #8 -2/8/2005 [2 DCs #6, 15 DCs #95, 10 DCs #99, 6 DCs #100]*****(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 19 DCs, #30 on 16 DCs)
Postion #93 allinanchor: #20 -2/9/2005 [17 DCs #93, 6 DCs #99, 10 DCs #174]*****(Note: Allinanchor #20 on 17 DCs, #32 on 6 DCs, #219 on 10 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #116 -2/10/2005 [23 DCs #98, 4 DCs #202, 6 DCs #206]*****(Note: Allinanchor #116 on 23 DCs, #259 on 6 DCs, #260 on 4 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #115 -2/11/2005 [4 DCs #79, 19 DCs #98, 10 DCs #205]*****(Note: Allinanchor #106 on 4 DCs, #115 on 19 DCs, #299 on 4 DCs, #302 on 6 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #32 -2/12/2005 [4 DCs #79, 16 DCs #98, 3 DCs #100, 4 DCs #238, 6 DCs #246]** (Note: Allinanchor #32 on 23 DCs, #415 on 6 DCs, #444 on 4 DCs)
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

88 - 2/5/2005
91 - 2/6/2005
87 - 2/7/2005
99 - 2/8/2005
85 - 2/9/2005
83 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
61 - 2/12/2005
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

4260 - 2/2/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4300 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4340 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

742 - 1/16/2005
744 - 1/29/2005
Unchanged from previous date
756 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
758 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

1508 - 1/7/2005
1457 - 1/10/2005
1416 - 1/12/2005
608 - 1/20/2005(786 lost links from one IP)
628 - 1/23/2005
606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 2/6/2005(148 lost links from one IP)
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________
PR/Backlink info

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
114 0f 260 Backlinks reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
36 for Foxy
36 for Others
7 for Digitalpoint forums
1 for SEO Chat forums
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
267 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
178 for Foxy
31 for Others
16 for Patient
5 for Digitalpoint forums
3 for SEO Chat forums
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

~ November 25 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
3530 Backlinks
___________

~ October 27 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
469 Backlinks
___________

~ September 11 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
566 Backlinks
___________

~ August 30 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
457 Backlinks
___________

~ August 9 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
85 Backlinks
___________

~ July 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
129 Backlinks
___________

~ June 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
325 Backlinks
___________

~ May 31 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
170 Backlinks
___________

~ April 23 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
__________________

~ Highest Positions Attained ~

Position #15 allinanchor: #5 - 05/15/2004 [12 datacenters #19] Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
(No signature links had been used at this point - may have been "honeymoon period")

Postion #14 allinanchor: #2 - 08/24/2004 [9 DCs #13, 21 DCs #14] ****

Postion #12 allinanchor: #2 - 10/04/2004 [10 DCs #11, 22 DCs #12] ****

Postion #10 allinanchor: #2 - 10/06/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #4 allinanchor: #2 - 10/21/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #2 allinanchor: #2 - 10/27/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

__________________
Note:Google API has page at #97

 

Caryl:

IMHO there are two different types of sites and two different types of competition for high ranking when looking at the Rochester business and the experiment page.

I noted on your forum that for my one site that represents my business its money terms saw a dramatic change after this latest google update.

Call the site yadayada school Georgia, South Carolina, Florida.

For the last 10 months my site has been at #1 for yadayada school Georgia, yadayadaschool Florida, and yadayadaschool Florida regularly for this main term plus for secondary terms like yadayada course, or classes, or jobs Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. The other yadayada schools in the region were poorly optimized for google methods throughout 2004 and ranked below sites that are comparable to the large directory, phone book, general contractor sites for the regional terms.

Now they are at the top ranks with my own site and in some cases rank above it. All the other sites with some peripheral mention of yadayada school Georgia..or Florida, etc. rank below the 3 Highly relevant sites.

I believe that in some fashion, which is easily seen, in the case of regional businesses google has identified the most logical sites. Its as if they have reviewed every page on the site...seen a direct relationship to yadayada school Georgia and determined that because All of the site is relevant it merits a higher ranking than these mega sites...that might have lots of pages and many times more links...but only mention yadayada school Georgia on say 3 of its 5,000 pages in google.

My site and the other two are more focused on the search word phrase.

Now with this latest update my site climbed for phrases like yadayada school, yadayada, yadayada job, etc.

The two regional competitors are buried for those non-area specific terms and my site was pretty much top twenty for all of them and is now top ten for all of them including a couple of #1's.

Regardless, google is measuring the "regionalness" of my true competitors as more significant than mine for a couple of the yadayada Georgia phrases. I suspect it could be on page optimization but I believe it is more a type of site wide focus which possibly includes a greater percentage of focused links.

I am sure your client's site is dramatically more focused on the search phrase than the competitors in the top ten. I'm suspicious that it is focus rather than on page optimization. It could be measured by determining the number of Titles on the pages that are focused on phrases like or near Electrical Contractor Rochestor NY as a percentage of the total pages on the site versus the number of pages with a title like Electrical Contractor Rochestor versus the total number of pages for the mega sites.

Randfish has created a measurement tool that incorporates this type of analysis for keyword difficulty.

On the other hand the experiment page represents a site that is similarly focused on sleeping bags as are some of the other sites that have been highly ranked. I suspect that a number of those in the top ten are true "sleeping bag" sites.

In this context its drop is not because of focus, but for other reasons. A possible reason could be because the "relevancy factor" of the links was not relevant at all. I imagine most of the pages that link to the experiment page with "sleeping bags" as anchor text have absolutely nothing to do with camping, sleeping bags, etc.

Roughly the above is my take on what I have read with regard to this latest change.

In some manner, whether it is latent semantics or something else, it could be that Google is doing a better job of finding focus

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, you have summed it up pretty well here

Caryl with the greatest respect, and absolutely no criticism, IMHO you are missing the point with the links and theming.

The link must "flow" with all the information available

Look at it like a pyramid where you start at the top as you get into the pyramid the flow and factors change but the whole supports the shape and feel.

So some of those sites that in the past have existed at the top because of on page and internal linking are coming back if they have a relevant linking structure internal and external and have an almost "word perfect" approach to the set up of link, title, h1 and not forgetting the allinurl or text.

 

Thanks Guys,

So how do you think this applies to the experiment page currently and what do you think should be done?

Caryl

 

Just a couple of quick comments off the top of my head to Caryl's last comment.

1. These changes may or may not be related to what Foxy and I have commented upon. Only google knows. We only experiment.

2. Lets see what happens of allinanchor over time. That is afterall why the experiment started - to see if there was a relationship with anchor text, allinanchor, and rankings.

3. On the last update, even as allinanachor climbed, 10 dc's dropped allinanchor into the 400's, lower than it had been on any dc's. I'm curious as to where allinanchor is going in light of an experiment wherein the majority of effort was simply getting lots of anchor text with a single phrase "sleeping bags".

4. On the one hand if the referenced threads and foxy's comments are accurate, (as I understand this) it could suggest that non related link sources won't help the site. If that were the case the experiment would need to change dramatically.

5. Some of the comments I read elsewhere suggested altering or mixing up anchor text.

If there was validity to that comment we could try changing some of the back link text to a variety of other associated phrases, like sleeping bag, camping gear, outdoor equipment, etc. I guess that would also require some on-page changes to accomodate and "flow" with varying anchor text.

Just a couple of quick comments and suggestions. I'm sure there are other excellent ideas that are more to the point.

I'm just beginning to come to grips with these comments and don't really feel I have a great grasp of them yet.

Dave

 

Nothing yet in my opinion.

I've been reading and monitoring this thread and several others on this last Google move and I'm not sure I see any pattern or consistency in it yet. Most of the people who claim to understand it are doing so on the basis of a very small sample or a single web site at best.

I monitor about a dozen web sites very closely and most of them didn't change at all. Some deserve to be higher, but appear to be permanently stuck in the sandbox. Some ranked well and nothing changed with this update.

But I have two sites with totally different results. Both of these have had fairly extensive SEO applied to them. The first of these is www.yourfriendlypharmacy.com which had several terms ranked in the top ten and others in the top 50. Here is what has happened to this site:



The difference between this site and the one to follow is that this site has about 300 or 400 reciprocal links out of the 2930 that Google reports. Whereas the www.123securityproducts.com site has 2440 according to Google, and none of these are reciprocating. Here are the results for this site which had previously been absolutely nowhere for about 6 to 9 months:



It is interesting to note that Google still hasn't settled down. It dropped one of this site's prime keyword phrase -- security systems -- from 36 to nowhere over night.

However you can see the totally different impact this update has had on these two sites. I did the SEO on both of these and the only real difference in methodology or philosophy was the use of reciprocal links on one of the sites. So explain the difference in Google's handling of these two sites to me in terms of LSI and "flow" and onpage issues and all the other things that are being speculated about.

I don't think anybody know what Google has just done. I certainly don't think I do. My advise is simply to wait a while.

 

As we have already seen there are many ways to look at the changes in google and many ways to interpret all of this. It can't hurt to wait and get more observations and more opinions.

BTW, 3 additional yadayada schools didn't rise to the top. I looked hard at one site. It has 4 yadayada schools in 3 states. It has only one page with a single mention of its address in a competing jurisdiction. Likewise in the state where it has two schools it didn't rise to the top. I haven't checked its bls yet.

It does well for a generic search(non jurisdictional) for a variation on yada yada. Two other yadayada schools also didn't move up for searches with the state. I will have to check them more rigorously.

I'm very interested to hear about other sites and other ideas.

Dave

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**
***27 DCs are NOT resp**
****32 DCs are NOT resp**
*****36 DCs are NOT resp**

The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #99 allinanchor: #8 -2/5/2005 [See here - too numerous]*****(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 15 DCs, #25 on 12 DCs, #26 on 6 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #7 -2/6/2005 [3 DCs #88, 20 DCs #95, 6 DCs #97, 4 DCs #98]*****(Note: Allinanchor #2 on 2 DCs, #7 on 21 DCs, #15 on 10 DCs)
Postion #94 allinanchor: #7 -2/7/2005 [13 DCs #94, 2 DCs #97, 6 DCs #99, 12 DCs #100]**(Note: Allinanchor #7 on 17 DCs, #28 on 16 DCs)
Postion #95 allinanchor: #8 -2/8/2005 [2 DCs #6, 15 DCs #95, 10 DCs #99, 6 DCs #100]**(Note: Allinanchor #8 on 19 DCs, #30 on 16 DCs)
Postion #93 allinanchor: #20 -2/9/2005 [17 DCs #93, 6 DCs #99, 10 DCs #174]**(Note: Allinanchor #20 on 17 DCs, #32 on 6 DCs, #219 on 10 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #116 -2/10/2005 [23 DCs #98, 4 DCs #202, 6 DCs #206]**(Note: Allinanchor #116 on 23 DCs, #259 on 6 DCs, #260 on 4 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #115 -2/11/2005 [4 DCs #79, 19 DCs #98, 10 DCs #205]**(Note: Allinanchor #106 on 4 DCs, #115 on 19 DCs, #299 on 4 DCs, #302 on 6 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #32 -2/12/2005 [4 DCs #79, 16 DCs #98, 3 DCs #100, 4 DCs #238, 6 DCs #246]**(Note: Allinanchor #32 on 23 DCs, #415 on 6 DCs, #444 on 4 DCs)
Postion #98 allinanchor: #117 -2/13/2005 [2 DCs #78, 3 DCs #79, 12 DCs #98, 4 DCs #99, 2 DCs #100, 6 DCs #192, 4 DCs #399]** (Note: Allinanchor #107 on 4 DCs, #117 on 19 DCs, #324 on 6 DCs, #325 on 4 DCs)
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

88 - 2/5/2005
91 - 2/6/2005
87 - 2/7/2005
99 - 2/8/2005
85 - 2/9/2005
83 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
61 - 2/12/2005
100 - 2/13/2005
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

4260 - 2/2/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4300 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
4340 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

742 - 1/16/2005
744 - 1/29/2005
Unchanged from previous date
756 - 2/5/2005
Unchanged from previous date
758 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

1508 - 1/7/2005
1457 - 1/10/2005
1416 - 1/12/2005
608 - 1/20/2005(786 lost links from one IP)
628 - 1/23/2005
606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
251 - 2/12/2005
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________
PR/Backlink info

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
114 0f 260 Backlinks reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
36 for Foxy
36 for Others
7 for Digitalpoint forums
1 for SEO Chat forums
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
267 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported

18 for Caryl
16 for Bob
178 for Foxy
31 for Others
16 for Patient
5 for Digitalpoint forums
3 for SEO Chat forums
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

~ November 25 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
3530 Backlinks
___________

~ October 27 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
469 Backlinks
___________

~ September 11 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
566 Backlinks
___________

~ August 30 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
457 Backlinks
___________

~ August 9 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
85 Backlinks
___________

~ July 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
129 Backlinks
___________

~ June 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
325 Backlinks
___________

~ May 31 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
170 Backlinks
___________

~ April 23 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
49 Backlinks
__________________

~ Highest Positions Attained ~

Position #15 allinanchor: #5 - 05/15/2004 [12 datacenters #19] Note: Allinanchor #6 on 12 DCs
(No signature links had been used at this point - may have been "honeymoon period")

Postion #14 allinanchor: #2 - 08/24/2004 [9 DCs #13, 21 DCs #14] ****

Postion #12 allinanchor: #2 - 10/04/2004 [10 DCs #11, 22 DCs #12] ****

Postion #10 allinanchor: #2 - 10/06/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #4 allinanchor: #2 - 10/21/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

Postion #2 allinanchor: #2 - 10/27/2004 [All Datacenters] ****

__________________
Note:Google API has page at #98

 

Tell me how this happened overnight???

note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

88 - 2/5/2005
91 - 2/6/2005
87 - 2/7/2005
99 - 2/8/2005
85 - 2/9/2005
83 - 2/10/2005
Unchanged from previous date
61 - 2/12/2005
100 - 2/13/2005

Suddenly Google reports and additonal 39 pages. What has that got to do with LSI and "flow" and yadayadayada keywords? I think you are all dreaming. For every example you can show to prove your point I can show you one that totally disproves the contention.

We may have to wait another several weeks before any pattern or consistency can be seen, if any can ever be seen. For now it would appear that Google is having trouble even counting.

 

Not to mention today's ride on the big G...

6 Datacenters reported these results as the day progressed...
216.239.39.99
216.239.39.104
216.239.37.99
216.239.37.104
216.239.37.105
216.239.37.147


at 8:30AM - position #98 allinanchor #117

at 12:30PM - position #98 allinanchor #117

at 3M- position #399 allinanchor #325

at 5:30PM- position #102 allinanchor #278

Full Details

 

I'm sorry Bob but I can't quite see the connection between Google finding the extra links from you and the propositions for the overall.

On the other hand I can see a direct relationship between total links lost by contributors [as listed above] and the current position, suggesting, that as the page stands now, without any attempt to change the overall, that it is quantity of links that carries the weight in the algo not the spread.

That surprises me!

 

Foxy,

I find your referrence to "as the page stands now" curious.

Do you realize that just within the last 24 hrs. the page has been recorded in 15 different positions? Ranging from position #78 to position #399!

In the last 24 hours allinanchor has been recorded in 9 different positions! Ranging from position #2 to Position #325!

So, what are you basing that statement on?

Datacenter Results February 2005

Caryl