Question about Design and Billing

Hi there... I haven't been around DP for long, and I want to start advertising more for my design services. I have a Bachelor's Degree in Graphic Design from a well-respected art school, I've worked in the printing and graphic design industries for over 10 years, and have a strong portfolio.

At design firms/ad agencies I've worked at, they've billed anywhere from $60-$100/hour. I know that includes a lot of overhead and so forth. Freelancers I know charge in the $30-$50/hr range, because they have much less overhead.

But now I'm seeing people on DP charging $5-10 TOTAL for a logo design! I've seen a lot of their work, some of it is very, very good, and some is pretty strong, but there is a LOT of it that is trite, cliche, boring, or downright poor design, and people are accepting this stuff as "outstanding" work. I don't know if they are happier with the design, or the fact that they paid only $8 for a logo. I'm not trying to be condescending, because I know everyone has different levels of talent, and we're all out here trying to make a buck. But it's frustrating, knowing that I spent so much time learning to be a designer, and spent so much money for a degree.

My main points are these:

1) As a graphic designer, I feel like I can't charge as much as my time is worth. There's no WAY I can justify creating a worthwhile logo in $10 worth of time. I would feel guilty taking someone's money.

2) I feel like the technology nowadays has created a plethora of "designers" out there, which has lowered the bar dramatically for many potential clients. I see so many websites now that are just brutal, very little design sense is used, but the fact that someone knows a little Photoshop or Flash and is willing to accept minimal payment for their time makes it very frustrating to those of us who understand what good design, branding and identity are all about.

So, I guess I'm just venting, because it's hard to compete in a forum like this. All I can do is depend on my design work to hold up on its own, and hope that my clients will realize that although they are paying more, they are getting more. I think DP is a great site, and have already met a few good people, and gotten a couple jobs from it, which is fantastic seeing as I've only been here a short while.

Any opinions on this? Just curious what other people think about this issue. I'm sure I'll get some "sour grapes" responses, and that's ok. Maybe I am a little envious that people are getting paid for doing less work. I just can't do it that way.

Interested to hear what other people have to say, and if you don't mind, include your design background, hopefully we'll get input from people with many different viewpoints.

 

Hey Mate,

Im extremely new to this forum. I do totally understand your points, and am quite suprised regarding pricing on here.

I am entered into a competition for minisite designers at the moment. There is $8000 in prizemonies. The competition is limited to 64 designers only. If anyone is interested in gaining lots of exposure and the prizes, PM me. I do not think I have enough priveleges to post live links yet.

If you get into the IM scene, as we are, if you were a vey good designer, you could easily be earning $100 an hour. The competition could be the first step

Darren

 

I myself am new,and very shocked to see the designs and other such that are sold for cheap price.Still,i have always charged my web designs between a price range of 60-500 USD$,depending on the quality and time used onto the design of course.The second reason to justify what you just said is the amount of visitors,i mean there are other sites where you can sell website designs and there a lot of people that view your sale,which means more people willing to buy,offering more and more...

Hope it answered your curious questions

 

you know, i couldn't agree with you more. there are a lot of cheap designers on here and it is hard trying to get people to pay you a decent rate for your work. i did a few sub-page designs for a guy on here last week at what i thought was a very reasonable rate. i average $1k for a website design by itself on average with no code involved. i offered to do this for $75USD which is shit to be honest but i needed the money. needless to say, i think this guy didn't like my price and has yet to pay me for my services. not to mention any names (LegendaryPosting) but i thought my offer was really good considering what i normally make. ah well, i will give him until friday before i start flaming him on here as a scammer. we all have money issues at times but if you agree to something, stick to it.

 

Right, ansi, that's what I was getting at. Hope you get paid! The one client that I met through DP that I've completed the job for was very helpful, paid immediately, and didn't balk at my pricing, so I feel good about that. But still can't fathom doing a logo for $8. Either they throw it together in 10 minutes or less with little or no thought behind it, or they are spending more time on it, and making like $0.25 an hour.

 

Its weird the pricing some people are doing, you guys seriously should get into the Internet Marketing sector, people will throw good money at good designers

Darren

 

hi mac! ok...so u already know my background in this area...and u know...i'm glad you said something because as you know i'm pretty new here too and i felt the same way when i checked out some of the posts about offers.... pretty frustrating. even freelance for some of my clients i'm getting a range of $60-95 for my time. i think your concerns are well voiced and i guess my only other input is...value...they get what they pay for. as in the print world as you and i both know you cant have all three: cheap, fast, and good quality...pick any two.

so that being said and knowing a little about online marketing...people getting into e-real estate so to speak and selling informational products...that may be all they are looking for. its more about content here i think than about graphics and design. so the goal is just to make it look a little appealing to the eye. the money maker is the content. that is my impression from reading and posting in forums. u may feel like your customers are getting more value for their dollar by offering a high quality branding and design service by checking out places like e-lance and others. pm me on the topic if you want to throw around some more ideas together. always glad to help where i can!

 

The low priced rubbish has obviously made getting work for professionals more difficult but it's not impossible. You'll probably notice that most $5 logos are made either on forums of freelance websites, you just have to target serious clients in other places.

For example, if you create a partnership with a serious web design firm they could refer serious clients to you. The people who understand the value of a website will also understand the value of a logo. Although this example may be a little hard to fulfill, you get the idea.

 

I hear ya, live-cms.com... I've already met a few people/clients on here that are saying exactly that... which is essentially, "I like your work, and understand the value of a good logo/website/brand."

So, you're right, it's just a matter of finding clients who appreciate quality design, most of them understand that it comes with a higher price tag, just like anything else of quality.

(Of course, none of this has stopped me from entering logo contests where the prizes are $25, $35, $50... I still feel like the quality is there, but admittedly, not as much thought goes into something that needs to be done quickly like that. It's more for the satisfaction of having my design picked, than it is about the money.) :-D

 

haha, i can honestly say that i do the same thing. though i did lose the last one but o'well. there's always others right?

 

I thought the same about seeing what people were offering to do logo design here for. Just crazy, although some of the logos were pretty good. Your time is worth more than that. Don't look for customers here unless you find those who are willing to pay going rates for good design. People who understand that good design comes at a certain price, realize that the investment is worth it and they are better to worth with anyway.

 

The prices f.e. here on DP are extremely low in some cases.
If you are looking to get paid more for what you do. I suggest you find clients locally. They tend to see the value of you're services much better then the loads of 'looking for the cheapest' you'll find on the net.

I also prefer it because you are able to really socially interact with your client to get the best result out of the job. Get it the way the client wants to.

I'd also say try not to go lower then 15$ an hour. Unless ofcourse you are in real need of money.

 

well, most of the logos designed for $10 are just nice images (well...sometimes) with no investigation of the company nor the company's competition. This is how $10 logos work:

-Hey I need a logo
-ok, how is your company named?
- Luxury events
-Ok, done.
-wowwwww, nice colors!

People forget logos are the basic image of their company, everything you do after it will be based on your logo, colors, design, etc. Logos MUST trasmit what your business is about and what you do. So before starting you should:

investigate the market
identify the target audience (age, social status, etc)
Identify suitable colors (psychology of color)
Investigate the competition

If your designer is not doing this, he is not creating a logo, just a random and forgettable image.

that's all

 

amen brother.

 

Preachin to the choir, my man! Well said.